Protidrogová policie představuje nebezpečí pro dospívající

16. 01. 2009 | 18:05
Přečteno 111006 krát
Nejde o legalizaci či naopak větší kriminalizaci tzv. lehkých drog. Zásadnějším problémem je přístup mladistvých k informacím.

Jakub Frydrych, nově jmenovaný šéf protidrogové centrály, řadí marihuanu k tvrdým drogám, stejně jako jeho předchůdce ve funkci. "Rozhodně tam patří," nechal se slyšet Frydrych (zde). Takové výroky by měly rodičům mladistvých nahánět hrůzu, o to větší, pokud se dítě doma nebo ve škole nenaučilo kritickému myšlení.

Podobný přístup jsem zažila v americkém školství. Sem tam nějaká hodně vybledlá zmínka o alkoholu a jinak bylo tlustými písmeny psáno: všechny drogy jsou nebezpečné. A je to pravda. Drogy jsou nebezpečné, motorová vozidla jsou nebezpečná, většina onemocnění může být za určitých podmínek nebezpečná. Namlouvat nezletilým, že všechny drogy (pokud možno s výjimkou alkoholu, že ano?) jsou zhruba stejně nebezpečné, to je jako kdyby dospělí ve výuce nedělali rozdíly mezi autobusem a motorkou nebo mezi chřipkou a rakovinou.

S takovým přístupem by pak nikoho nemělo překvapit, když experimentující teenager zjistí, že marijánka nijak výrazně nebezpečná ani návyková není a usmyslí si (na svůj věk celkem logicky), že policajti spolu s vládou, účou a ostatními brzdícími živly jenom kecají. Pardon, kecaj. Zbytek příběhu ani nemusím líčit.

O drogy jsem nikdy neměla sebemenší osobní zájem, takže o legalizaci marihuany neusiluji. Mám však dostatek zkušeností na to, abych upozornila na skutečnost, která je snad jasná všem kromě výše jmenovaných protidrogových odborníku: marihuana, ač může "vést" k jiným drogám, je v úplně jiné kategorii než pervitin, kokain a podobná svinstva. Strašit děti a teenagery marihuanou je kontraproduktivní.

Co se týče kriminalizace marihuany v zemi, kde zároveň silně pokulhává informovanost o nebezpečí alkoholu, to téma vyžaduje samostatný příspěvek.

Co se týče dospívajících, nezbývá než doufat, že jim dospělí poskytnou kvalitnější informace o návykových látkách, než veřejný činitel tímto úkolem pověřený.

19.1.09 Upřesňující poznámka: Tento příspěvek byl rychlou reakcí na J. Frydrycha. Nechtěla jsem naznačit, že konopí považuji za neškodné. Pokud to není jasné z výše uvedené skutečnosti, že jsem nikdy žádnou drogu nezkusila, nyní tímto opakuji svůj postoj. Konopí je o poznání méně nebezpečné než tvrdé drogy a tudíž nemá být zařazováno do stejné kategorie. Jde převážně o důvěru ze strany mládeže a o účinnou protidrogovou prevenci, kterou zatím nikdo spolehlivě nevymyslel. Toť vše. V dalších článcích plánuji podrobněji nastínit téma nebezpečí alkoholu a jiných drog včetně "trávy." Momentálně si doplňuji vědecké zdroje na téma "alkohol versus marihuana."

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Komentáře

Aktuálně.cz má zájem poskytovat prostor jen pro korektní a slušně vedenou debatu. Tím, že zde publikujete svůj příspěvek, se zároveň zavazujete dodržovat Kodex diskutujících. Pokud Váš text obsahuje hrubé urážky, vulgarismy, spamy, hanlivá komolení jmen, vzbuzuje podezření z porušení zákona, je celý napsán velkými písmeny či jinak odporuje zdejším pravidlům, vystavujete se riziku, že jej editor smaže.
Přejeme Vám zajímavou a inspirativní výměnu názorů.
Libor Stejskal, editor blogů (blogy@aktualne.cz)

vlk napsal(a):

Paní Gelbardt

promiňte, ale já stojím za názorem nového Komorouse!
pro něj je marijánka jen předstupněm k tvrdším drogám. A má pravdu. O drogách,naštěstí nic osobního nevím, ale soudím, že stejně jako alkoholik nezačíná svou pijáckou karieru hned rumem nebo vodkou , ale jd e přes pivo, pak feťák asi většinou začíná u marijánky.

A nemáte pravdu, že není žádná restrikce alkoholu. Minimálně nějaká je alespoň do 18 let. Možná neúčinná , ale je . Zatímco průzkumy udávají , že první zkušenosti s marijánkou mají děti už také ve 2.třídě základní školy.A tihle rozhodně u nenávykové marijánky zřejmě neskončí.
Není důvod nestíhat obchodníky s marijánkou a její pěstitele. Ostatně, že jejich byznys je prohibitivní dobře vědí. Nesou svoje rizika dobrovolně. Není sebemenší důvod jim to usnadňovat.
16. 01. 2009 | 18:23

Marek napsal(a):

Naprosto souhlasim
16. 01. 2009 | 18:23

Anti Marjánka napsal(a):

Naučte se česky, kdo chce publikovat, by neměl dělat pravopisné chyby.
16. 01. 2009 | 18:29

petragelbart napsal(a):

To vlk:
1. Jedna vec je upozornovat na to, ze marijanka je predstupnem k tvrdsim drogam (nekdy je, mnohdy neni!). Druha vec je radit ji rovnou mezi tvrde drogy. At uz existuje postih nebo ne, vyroky typu "marihuana je tvrda" jsou nepravdive a deti pak maji jeste mensi duveru.

2. Nemluvim o restrikci alkoholu, ale o informovanosti. Ostatne planuji o tom opravdu nekdy napsat :-)

Jinak myslim, ze chapu, co rikate. Jako matka bych take chtela co nejvic znesnadnit pristup svych deti k jakymkoli drogam...ale mezi alkoholem a marihuanou opravdu nevidim zadny rozdil, krome toho, ze alkohol vnimam jako horsi. Neznamena to, ze bych hned zakazala alkohol a legalizovala marijanku, ale, jak uz jsem rekla, je to otazka informovanosti.
16. 01. 2009 | 18:34

petragelbart napsal(a):

To Anti Marjanka: Ja jsem v cestine od svych deseti let samouk (viz "o autorovi"). Pokud chcete poukazat na konkretni pravopisnou chybu, rada se poucim. Pokud mi chcete zakoupit ceskou verzi Wordu, rada ji prijmu :-)
16. 01. 2009 | 18:37

Ge napsal(a):

Můj názor je takový, že záleží pouze na osobnosti zda zůstane u marihuany či přestoupí k jiným drogám.Ale žijeme v demokracii, proč bych si nemohl vypěstovat pár kytek pro vlastní požití?Komu tím ublížím?Ano jsem pravidelný kuřák marihuany, jsem rozhodně pro stíhání dealerů a jiným jim podobným, ale jakým způsobem vám ublížím, když budu pěstovat pro vlastní potřebu? Záleží snad na svobodné vůli člověka zda onu drogu přijme či ne...Z osobní zkušenosti mohu říci že alkohol je mnohem větší "svinstvo".Ale lidem se zatvrzelým názorem, kteří ihned řadí marihuanu k tvrdým drogám,ač nikdy nepoznali " o čem to je", je v naší zemi většina a bohužel debata s nimi nemá žadného smyslu.Otevřete oči, žijeme v 21.století...
16. 01. 2009 | 18:45

Tupelo napsal(a):

Souhlasim s autorkou, a zustava mi rozum stat, jak muzou odbornici typu Frydrycha hazet travu do jedne skatulky jako heroin alkohol ci heroin. Myslim ze timto postojem maji na svedomi hodne tech, kteri se k zavislosti na tvrdych drogach dostaly presne tou cestou, kterou popisuje autorka (totiz ze kdyz 'odbornici' strasili travou a nic, tak s pernikem to bude podobne...). Musel bych dohledat, ale tusim ze jsem nekde cetl, ze v Holandsku pocet kuraku marihuany klesl, pote co zacla byt akceptovana (zakazane ovoce nejvic chutna).

petragalbert: nejaka ceska verze wordu by se mohla najit nekde na internetu (zadara, kdyz jsme u te kriminalni cinnosti ;)). A diky za clanek, neni to o cestine (tu mate mozna lepsi nez ja), ale o necem dulezitejsim.
16. 01. 2009 | 18:55

CZerta napsal(a):

for vlk:
Ja nejake, i kdyz velice spore, zkusenosti s marihuanou mam, ale znam spousty lidi, co ji uzivaji casto nebo i pravidelne a taky broji proti tvrdym drogam.
Kdyz uz jste zminil ten alkohol, tak z toho vyplyva, ze kazdy kdo si da pivo, casem prejde k rumu a vodce a stane se z neho alkoholik.
A pokud jde o zkusenosti druhaku s marihuanou, tak dovolte, abych se smichem povalel po klavesnici. Reknete mi, kolik takovych druhaku znate. Pokud muzu rict, tak vetsina pruzkumu uvadi prvni zkusenost nekdy kolem 15. roku.
Ja osobne nehulim, protoze budu jeste potrebovat mozek na vysce, ale jsem pro castecnou legalizaci, napriklad od 18 nebo jako v Holandsku ve vyhrazenych podnicich, protoze potom marihuana ztrati chut a lakavost zakazaneho ovoce.
16. 01. 2009 | 18:56

Hajný napsal(a):

to autorka:
Nevím nic o tom,že by úkolem policie bylo provádět protidrogovou osvětu.
A rozdělovat jedy na mírné jedy a těžké jedy je nesmysl.O liberálním přístupu k drogám se krásně mluví,ale když to postihne vaše dítě,je po liberalitě.Moje známá byla také taková jako vy.A když marjánce propadla její dcera spolu s problémy v morálce a ve škole(práva)!tak ji benevolence rychle přešla.
Výsledek:Rozvrácená rodina a oba rodiče by každého prodejce drog nezavírali,ale věšeli!
16. 01. 2009 | 19:23

klaar z reykjaviku napsal(a):

4czerta:
souhlasim s tebou - zila jsem nejaky ten rok v nl (jen upresnim, ze marihuana je tam tolerovana, ale neni legalni, samozrejme coffeshopy jsou legalni, ale vetsinou obyvatelstva jiz nesnasene). podle mne je dulezite, jak rikaval leary, aby lide byli dostatecne informovani o vsech drogach. nemuzete srovnavat drogy jako heroin, pervitin a amfetaminy s drogami psychedelickymi. v nl maji dostatecnou prupravu uz od kolebky a proto - skoro vsichni mladi lide tam nehuli, protoze je to na kazdem rohu, dostupne a pro ne nepripustne.
to je chyba ceskeho statu, kazdy se v osmdesatych letech obrastil k tomuhle tematu zady, vyhlasil ho jako tabu a proste jako by neexistoval. a ted se desi nasledku? pozde...
ja sama JSEM kurackou marihuany - pestuji si jednu kytku, dam si brko jednou za tyden jako emocionalni medicinu. a co? je to muj zivot.
zeman si nicil mozek becherovkou, ja si rozsiruji vedomi psychedelickymi drogami. kdo nikdy nezkusil, nemel by soudit a kdo si o tom neprecetl studii, mel by drzet hubu.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:24

Hajný napsal(a):

To vlk:
Plně souhlasím s Vaším příspěvkem.

PS:Na předposledním Kohoutovi jsme s Rumcajsem brali Vaše jméno nadarmo.Ale v dobrém!
16. 01. 2009 | 19:25

klaar z reykjaviku napsal(a):

2hajny:
o takovych pripadech jako jste Vy presne mluvim. nevite o tom nic a mate velkou predstavivost.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:26

Dotaz napsal(a):

Mám prostý dotaz.. Nezamlouvám se vám libovolná droga.. tomu rozumím proč do ale mluvíte nebo zasahujete do života lidem s opačným názorem nebo postojem?

Pokud vám někdo vybere byt ok, součinost s policii je logická.. proč ale provolávate podpůrna hesla nebo podporujete policii v potírání tkz drog - ty jsou čistě osobní záležitostí dotčených osob, stejně jako je vaše věc, že ničíte přírodu autem, nebo "čerpáte" více prostředků ze zdravotnictví třeba tím, že se přejidáte.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:29

Lex napsal(a):

autorka, Ge
Vážení, malinká odbočka: co takhle hovězí maso, co takhle vepřové maso, co mnohoženství, co tak sex od deseti nebo méně let?
Nemyslíte, že vaše příměry jsou trošku nepatřičné?
Co s tím má maso společného: no zkuste zabít krávu v Indii, zkuste se mezi muslimy cpát vepřovým, zkuste u nás mnohoženství případně sex pod patnáct! Také je to zdraví škodlivé? Ono to není jenom o zdraví, nebezpečí či svobodě. Je to také o tradicích, kultuře, náboženství a zvycích, z nichž mimo jiné rezultují i zákony. A o odpovědnosti k sobě samému a ke společnosti.
Na Blízkém východě se kouří opium a hašiš a nikdo nehne brvou. Ale kdo by si lokl alkoholu, je "mrtvý muž". Ve skutečnosti, i podle zákona.
Žena, která by cizoložila, je ukamenována, kdežto muž toliko bičován (po x-té ráně zmírá, je to vlej vylej). Je cizoložství nezdravé? I po tom toužíte?
Já zkrátka respektuji, že evropská společnost (především středoevropská)se vyvíjela jinak, než arabský svět, čínský, indický, případně středoafrický (také byste snědli člověka, jak Boccasa pohostil Mitterranda? Stalo se mu něco, bylo to nezdravé, zdraví škodící?).
Zdraví v tom nehraje úplně hlavní roli. Ani ta nebezpečnost (přitom, oč je méně nebezpečný zhulený hadrák za volantem, než opilý člověk?). Tím méně poučování. Propagace ano. Svobodná společnost má právo si zvolit vůdčí principy své existence, zákony, které akceptují přirozené prameny práva. I omezení, která vyplývají z potřeb, i kupř. tradic, na nichž byla ta která společnost založena. Ta naše po dlouhá staletí akceptuje nápoje vzniklé kvašením, a žel i negativní důsledky, které to přináší, ale neakceptuje hadráky, i kdyby oni osobně tvrdili, že jim to prospívá. Ani já.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:29

markéta napsal(a):

Učím na speciální škole. Žáci se již od šestého nebo sedmého ročníku dostávají do kontaktu s mariuhanou, hodně z nich ji mnohokrát okusilo nebo s ní experimentovalo. A to i přes to, že škola má propracovanbý systém prevence od nejnižších ročníků a děti dostávají mnoho informací- děláme různé projekty, ale pozitivním postojem různých osobností třeba z hudebního světa apod, kteří bagatelizují vliv marihuany, mají pocit, že kouření mariuhany je něco samozřejmého, přirozeného a neškodného.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:29

Premysl napsal(a):

Dobry den

S drogama jsem si uzil sve
a taky myslim, ze patrim k tem stastnejsim, kteri neskoncili na heroinu. Dnes uz o marihuanu ani nezavadim. castecne diky stesti a hlavne diky lasce mych rodicu. Mozna se ted mnozi usklibnou, ja bych videl kavu
a marihuanu na stejne urovni. Dejte si po sobe tri dvojite espresa a vetsinou mi date za pravdu, ze jste silne opojeni.
Souhlasim s panem Komorousem, ze: "marihuana je droga"
Podle meho nazoru je spor o hranici. O hranici mezi zakonem jeste pripustnou a uz nepripustnou drogou. Balancuje se okolo marihuany. Prece neni nebezpecne si ji zakourit, pokud nebudu ridit auto, pokud mne to uvolni a neprivadi k depresi. Proc se represe nezavadi tam, kde je ji nejvic treba? Tim neschvaluju zneuzivani a uz vubec dilerstvi. To je nejhorsi svinstvo! Ale rozlisujme klukoviny a trestne ciny! Jednou ty,ty,ty a podruhe uz smerujes k recidivismu... Uvazujme pomaleji o tom, jestli se nase pubertalni dite stavi na vlastni nohy prostrednictvim drog, potom asi nema jinou, lepsi motivaci. To neni problem dostupnosti, prece?!
16. 01. 2009 | 19:30

petragelbart napsal(a):

To Hajny: To mate tezke. Naprosto souhlasim, ze "trava" muze primo ci neprimo rozvratit rodinu. Ale co alkohol? Bratr mych znamych propadl jeste jako nezletily alkoholu a v navaznosti na to spachal sebevrazdu. A tak dale, a tak dale. Anekdot je dost, naprosto chapu vas postoj, ale komu umrel partner na alkoholem zpusobenou cirhozu, ten by k tomu take neco dodal... Pokud je nesmysl rozdelovat jedy na mirne jedy a tezke jedy, tak proc sef protidrogove policie nemluvi o alkoholu jako o jedu? Proc k tvrdym drogam neradi krome marihuany i koralku? (Protoze koralka je legalni, mimo jine.)

Ukolem policie mozna neni provadet protidrogovou osvetu, ale take by nemela verejnosti "mlzit." (Jsme opet u toho, ze "dospeli kecaj.")

Mimochodem nemyslim si, ze mam zrovna liberalni pristup k navykovym latkam...
16. 01. 2009 | 19:31

Petr Havelka napsal(a):

No, taky mne to zarazilo. Marjánku jsem si párkrát spokojeně vychutnal, z tvrdých drog mám respekt, takže nic. ¨

Antimarjánka má patrně na "misly", prvni odstsveček "mladistvých", zajímavé je, že v druhém odstavci to máte dobře. To Vás to na tom Harvardě himlšiml nenaučili :)
16. 01. 2009 | 19:34

klaar z reykjaviku napsal(a):

droga je kafe, caj, ciga, alkohol, listky koky co zvejkaj v kolombii.
vsem doporucuji zeleny caj oolong a uvidite, jak budete vyjety. a mozna, ze se vam to srovna v hlave.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:35

Adéla napsal(a):

nesouhlasím s autorkou - myslím, že dnešní teenageři vědí velmi dobře co která droga "umí" provést s jejich tělem - s tím je seznamují v rámci preventivních programů ve školách. takže já jako máma jsem jednoznačně proti legalizaci marihuany a přístup k alkoholu a cigaretám bych znesnadnila mnohenm víc než je teď - fakt netoužím, aby pro moje děti bylo jednoduché si něco z výše jmenovaného opatřit !
16. 01. 2009 | 19:37

Hajný napsal(a):

to klaar z reykjavyku:
Ne nevím o tom nic.Jen znám denodenní pláč zoufalé a bezmocné matky u nás doma v kuchyni.Hledání její dcery po různých barabiznách.
A místo nadějné právničky(samé jedničky)trosku.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:39

Ixák napsal(a):

Vidím podstatný rozdíl mezi řazením marihuany mezi tvrdé drogy z právních důvodů, aby mohli být její distributoři postihováni stejně jako distributoři např. heroinu a jejím zařazením mezi tvrdé drogy z důvodů pedagogických-marihuana prostě objektivně je méně nebezpečná jako heroin. S jejím distributorem by se však mělo zatočit stejně nekompromisně jako s distributorem heroinu. Jelikož autorka studuje etnomuziku a má tak blízko k cizím kulturám, snad uzná, že marihuana není droga naší kultury a neumíme se s ní tak psychicky vypořádat jako s alkoholem. Pro příklady nemusíme chodit daleko-alkohol kulturně zdecimoval celé indiánské kmeny. Proč tomu tak je, je na delší debatu avšak je faktem, že marihuana je pro člověka křesťanské euroamerické kulturní tradice mnohem nebezpečnější než alkohol.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:40

petragelbart napsal(a):

Petr Havelka: diky, opravuji! Mela jsem totiz dnes delat neco uplne jineho, nez psat blog, proto ta zvysena nepozornost :-)
16. 01. 2009 | 19:41

klaar z reykjaviku napsal(a):

2hajny:
to je ale chyba Vas dvou - rodicu. zalezi na vychove, kterou jste ji poskytli. kdybyste ji dali to, co potrebuje, neobratila by se k drogam. nadarmo se nerika jaky pan, takovy pes, protoze deti jsou jako psi...musis je ucit, aby z nich neco bylo. nevinte svoji dceru z vasich chyb.
2adela: asi jste na tech preventivnich programech s detma byla co? - jsou k hovnu.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:46

Pocestny napsal(a):

Dobrý večer, vespolek.
1. Policajt tu není od toho, aby definoval, co je jak závažné, policajt je tu od toho, aby střežil definované zákonem.

2. Marjána je obětí zdejšího pokrytectví - stejně jako se za socíku "odsuzovaly buzny", aby se řeč nedostala na naprosto bezuzdnou normalizační promiskuitu, stejně tak je marjána dneska zástěrkou pro ty, kteří si neradi nechají sahat na "národní stříbro", tedy cigára a chlast.

Vlk je v tomhle naprosto mimo, neposmívám se mu, protože mne poněkud zaskočilo, že z jeho traktátu vyplývá nulová znalost dat.

Je faktem, že být protidrogovým policajtem u nás je brnkačka. Kromě občasného pašuňku a pár pěstíren hulení pro holandské odběratele (snad si nemyslíte, že to vietnamci pěstují pro české máničky...) je totiž ze statistiky patrné, že liberální Praha má díky NEkriminalizaci puberťáků za hulení trávy drogy pod kontrolou. Přestože naši turisté s pomocí domácích "mládežníků" (hulí kdekdo a divili byste se, kolik žoviálních padesátníků občas rádo smotne..-)) vyhulí ročně 17 tun trávy, nepochází z toho nic zásadně kriminálního, kromě obrovského daňového úniku.

Kdyby na to stát uvalil daň a "legalizoval" to pro starší 18 let, nedocházelo by ke zbytečným kriminalizacím zoufalců, kteří si raušem zpříjemňují rakovinu nebo Altzheimera, to považuju za naprostej lidskej hyenismus a křováctví.

Řekněme si narovinu, jde o to, že ti starší než můj ročník se s tím dříve nesetkali, tudíž k tomu mají krajní nedůvěru.

Ono ale bohužel platí, že daleko horší zdravotní a sociální dopad mají cigára a nemoci z nich pocházející a hlavně chlast, který je vysoce přítomen ve statistikách násilí, bouraček, prostě věcí, které zabíjejí častěji než bychom si představovali.

Kdepak, kriminalizace trávy je pouze dobrá pro ty, kteří se bojí o "práva alkáčů a kuřáků".

Tráva není návykovou látkou, nikotin je ještě více návykový, než heroin a hůře se závislosti zbavuje.

Souhlasím s kriminalizací, ale jen toho, kdo podá či prodá nezletilému drogu a to jakoukoliv, včetně alkoholu a nikotinu.

Je ovšem si nutné ověřit, kdo je nezletilý, protože těžko obviňovat někoho v sedmnácti za trávu, když ho náš skvělý parlament už ve 14 učinil právně odpovědným.....

Já se musím smát, ale spíš bych zaplakal.

Lidi, čtěte!
Vlku, zahul, ať víš, o čem rozumuješ. Zjistíš možná, že jsi dnes mlátil prázdnou slámu....
16. 01. 2009 | 19:50

Hajný napsal(a):

to klaar z reykjaviku:
Nebyla to naše dcera.A to ostatní: kdybyste to vyslovil před paní Vlastou,nenechal bych vás odejít z našeho lesa živý!

Končím diskusi s Vámi!
16. 01. 2009 | 19:53

petragelbart napsal(a):

Ixak: "marihuana není droga naší kultury a neumíme se s ní tak psychicky vypořádat jako s alkoholem"

Tohle je velmi zajimava teze (take se mi libi, co napsal(a) Lex). Je to ale myslim osobni nazor, podobne jako muj prispevek.Nemohu souhlasit, ze marihuana je v euroamericke civilizaci nebezpecnejsi nez alkohol. Zatim kolem sebe nevidim nic, co by o tom svedcilo.
16. 01. 2009 | 19:55

Pocestny napsal(a):

Tak trochu o drogách:

Z hlediska konzumenta je dělíme na "měkké a tvrdé", to je dělení pro ty, kteří jen četli, každý konzument vám je ovšem rozdělí na "pomalé a rychlé".

Ty pomalé - tráva a hašiš, houbičky, LSD jsou halucinogeny, "odbržďují mozek", u osob "pod vlivem" dochází k uvolnění, relaxaci, pokud "mají v hlavě uklizeno" je to pro ně endorfinová záležitost.

Pokud má někdo ovšem v hlavě jaksi neuklizeno, může dojít k proliferaci schizofrenie, osoby s nízkým tlakem jsou v nebezpečí ztráty vědomí, tráva snižuje tlak, THC je parasympatikum a relaxant, psylocybin (houby) taktéž.

Další stupeň na téhle cestě jsou opiáty, tam je vliv rauše už determinující, protože jde o vysoce návykové věci a přechod od "ochutnání" k regulérní spotřebě je plynulý a občas velmi rychlý.

"Rychlé drogy" - extáze, kokain tripy( amfetaminové), to vše je stejný civilizační hnůj jako prostituce, lichva, valcha, je to "zkratka do pohody" pro ty, kteří potřebují akceleraci k pocitu štěstí.

Je svým způsobem jistým paradoxem, že v zemi, která dala Evropě jednu z nejhorších drog, pervitin (svinsky "rychlá" droga, je stále převážným zvykem se držet té trávy, roste počet "tripařů" na tanečních "tuctucárnách" a tvrdé drogy zůstávají doménou zejména v sociálně degradovaných vrstvách.

Proto považuji tyhle útoky za lacinou baráž na efekt, protože je to klasicky hystericky vytrženo z kontextu.

Vážení, zdalipak, když smshlasujete na Nově či Primitýví, víte, že většina vašich mediálních hvězd jsou naprosto normální koksaři?

Nakonec, vlčku, na Klausově pravolevé stupnici je tráva hned vedle petflašky, tedy je to symbol levicové relaxované mladé genrace těch, kteří sdílejí "humánní pohled" na přerozdělení za účelem celonárodní nírvány.

"Modří" mají své "bobule" - koks a Viagru... -)))
16. 01. 2009 | 20:07

Pocestny napsal(a):

Hajnej, proč ty nervy?

Narovinu, drsně a jednodušše.
Pokud dívka "ujela na tvrdých", byla droga jen médiem, které "zabralo" na něco, co si přinesla v hlavě, droga sama jen spustila destrukci osobnosti, na kterou bylo jinde mocně zaděláno. Jděte jejím životem zpět, nemluvte a poslouchejte, možná se o ní dozvíte věci, které jste nikdy nikdo nepřipustil.

Sorry, ale v tomhle případě v tom rodina jede vždy také....
16. 01. 2009 | 20:14

Jirka Hemzal napsal(a):

To Pocestny:
Absolutní souhlas. Podle odborníků, kteří se o drogově závislé starají je nečastější přechodová droga - alkohol, a ne tráva.
Házet všechny drogy do jednoho pytle je hloupost - znamenáte to, že se budou policajti honit se stejnou intezitou za překupníkem s heroinem, jako za někým, kdo si ušoulá pár jointů marjánky.
Jako nejhorší se mi na tom všem jeví pokrytectví, hlavně starší generace, kdy obden ožralej tatík fackuje své pubertální dítko za to, že si zapálilo trávu...
Takže drogy mi vadí - všechny, ale to pokrytectví je snad ještě horší...
16. 01. 2009 | 20:16

skeptický napsal(a):

Přesně dle očekávání,když se vezme v úvahu studijní zázemí.

Podobné odborníky z naprosto nesouvisejících oborů,radících děti neočkovat,anebo rodit doma,a kteří mají s těhotenstvím tak akorát zkušenost,že si to někdy zkoušely nanečisto,jsem už taky zažil.

Autorce doporučuji,aby v rámci svojí osvícenosti s podobnou výchovou začala u svých dětí,a dávala jim dostatečné kapesné.

Podobné knížecí rady škodí.Otázka je,jestli je v tom úmysl,nebo jenom řekněme naivita.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:21

js napsal(a):

je tady hodně příspěvků typu "já jako máma" (resp. "já jako táta")... kolik tatíků si připouští představu, že jejich dcerunku někde "opíchá" kdejaké ucho, natož nějaký zhýralý třicátník? ale mohlo by to skončit tak, že se zakáže sex lidem, jejichž rodiče ještě žijí, případně alespoň předmanželský styk... no nebyl by to krásný svět, plný čistých, neposkvrněných lidí, s čistou, chemií neovlivněnou myslí?
16. 01. 2009 | 20:22

SMC napsal(a):

mr. Pocestny, skláním se, trefa do černého.
:))) souhlas do poslední uklizené tečky !
16. 01. 2009 | 20:26

Pocestny napsal(a):

lxax
promiň, příteli, ale tohle je bojácný výkřik.

S křesťanstvím tohle nemá nic společného.

Mohu tě ujistit, že prostým čuchem jda po městě konstatuji, že tráva je naprosto esenciálním pachem Města pražského. Nemám pocit, že by tato droga měla nějaký zhoubný vliv na společnost, naopak, tam, kde v parku převládá kouř nad pachem piva, se nikdo nikdy nepere, neřve a nedělá bordel, zatímco okolí našich náleven toho není den ušetřeno.

Naopak, pokud mají "křesťané" problém s drogou, jmenuje se kokain, který:
-lze detekovat z 60% oběživa USD
- je esenciální součástí odpadních vod z hotelových prádelen v Londýně, lze ho tudíž detekovat i z vody řeky Temže v ústí do moře.

Kokain je droga, která pozvolna vytlačuje alkohol, protože kýžený efekt nastupuje okamžitě.

A pokud se bavíme o problému číslo jedna, bavme se o chlastu, ten zabije v Evropě ročně víc lidí, než všechny drogy dohromady...v Rusku bude možná důvodem zániku kmene..

Kdepak, zbytečný poplach na špatné místě fronty.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:26

Lex napsal(a):

petragelgart
To není osobní názor, to je realita. Z principů, které jsem stručně zmínil (je jich pochopitelně více), vyvěrají ústavy států a vnitřní normotvorba. Drogy (psychotropní látky) byly středoevropské kultuře cizí - chválabohu.
A přes jejich reálně se zvyšující výskyt věřím, že nadále většinově budou, že je zdejší kultura nebude ochotna akceptovat.
Své, výrazně intenzivnější zkušenosti s drogami mají i (a především) USA, ve kterých žijete a vychováváte svá mláďátka. Takže nepochybně dokážete srovnat i formy a metody boje proti drogám v Česku a USA (dovlím si srovnat: plyš a kartáč?). Přeji Vám, aby Vaše děti nikdy nepoznaly drogy, jako matka, o které píše Hajný. Třeba byste také přešla od trošku zjednodušeného pohledu na účinek osvěty.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:30

Z.T. napsal(a):

Hezky napsané :-)

Pro ty, co hloupoučce považují trávu za předstupeň tvrdých drog, dodávám:

"Předstupněm k jiným tvrdým drogám je alkohol, který je sám o sobě dost tvrdou drogou s nesrovnatelně větší společenskou nebezpečností."
16. 01. 2009 | 20:35

Petr z Tábora napsal(a):

Dobrý večer paní autorku. Patřím do názorové kategorie "vlk, Hajný, Lex a podobní", takže je nebudu opakovat. Vaše argumentace se mi zdá mírně demagogická.
Motorová vozidla mohou být nebezpečná vinou řidiče, ale drogy jsou nebezpečné samy o sobě - proč srovnáváte nesrovnatelné ?
Měkké a tvrdé drogy je sice pro některé účely dobré odlišovat, ale všechny jejich dealery bych postihoval co nejtvrději. Proč to relativizujete ? - pokud Vás jedna nemoc zabije za 3 měsíce a jiná za 3 roky, tak snad budete chtít, aby společnost bojovala proti původcům obou nemocí ?! Dovolte trochu mé demagogie - pokud Vás někdo zapíchne 3x a druhý jen 1x, tak to sice obhájce u soudu využije, ale obětem to bude už jedno.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:35

petragelbart napsal(a):

To skepticky: Sve deti povedu k tomu, aby pokud mozno nepily, aspon ne vic nez sem tam sklinku, nekourily (cigaretu, travu) a nic nesnupaly ani si nepichaly, pokud to neni lek. Pokud jedno nebo obe deti zacnou kourit, budu se bat. Pokud zacnou pit ve "vetsim nez malem mnozstvi," budu se o ne hodne bat. Pokud si pichnou heroin, asi propadnu panice. Tohle budou vedet a myslim, ze to odpovida realite. Takhle nejak, co se tyce opravdu navykovych tvrdych drog, mi to kdysi podal muj tata a melo to lepsi ucinek nez veskere protidrogove prednasky. Malokdo si uplne znici zivot kourenim marihuany. Malokdo si zacne pichat heroin a nesklouzne do pomyslneho pekla.

Pokud se nekdo pokusi nakukat mym detem, ze marihuana = kokain, okamzite je vyvedu z omylu. Jestli vam tohle prijde nezodpovedne, tak se zrejme nemame o cem bavit.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:36

Hajný napsal(a):

to pocestný:
Ta dívka ani nemusela mít nic v hlavě,jen jsme každý jinak odolný.Někdo snese čtyři zápaly plic,jiný má rakovinu už po druhém.Já nikde pátrat nebudu,stalo se a těžko se to dá zvrátit.A vrtat se rezavým hřebíkem v cizí ráně?Co dobrého by z toho vzešlo,nic.

A sebeobviňování rodičů je první fáze hledání příčin.Proto jsem tak vyjel,protože sebevraždy matek z tohoto důvodu jsou až příliš časté.A Vlasta byla k tomu na nejlepší cestě.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:38

petragelbart napsal(a):

To Petr z Tabora: Detem vysvetlim, ze motorky jsou sice nadherne stroje, mnohdy s uchvatnym designem, ale ze nasednout za ridice motorky je o hodne nebezpecnejsi nez nasednout do autobusu. A ze heroin je nebezpecnejsi nez trava. Pokud se vam tohle zda nesrovnavatelne, budiz, byl to jen narychlo vymysleny primer. Zajimalo by me ale, jak byste rozdil mezi drogmi vysvetlil detem Vy? Mozna se shodneme na nejakem lepsim primeru...
16. 01. 2009 | 20:41

Luba napsal(a):

Paní Gelbart,
stojím při Vás.

Nejtvrdší drogou je chlast.
Je nesrovnatelně nebezpečnější, než všechny ostatní drogy, a to nejen kvůli dostupnosti.

A protože konzumenty alkoholu jsou mnozí spořádaní občané, a politici na něj mají v parlamentním báru dokonce slevu,
jde o drogu legální - v naší kultuře tradiční.

Jinde žvýkají betel, koku, kouří hašiš a marjánu - jaký to důkaz necivilizovanosti!
Našinec má chlastat pivo, víno, slivovici. Popř. kontušovku, borovičku, čerta, zelenou a vanilkovou.

Ale trávu?
Ještě jsem neviděl ani neslyšel, že by někdo po vyhulení jointa vybílil hospodu, zmlátil ženu a děti, prokouřil byt, dům, chalupu, atd. atd.

Alkohol je řádně zdaněn. Stát má z něj příjem. Pochybuji, zda se to státu - a nám ostatním rentuje. Alkohol je nervový jed.
Zabiják těla i duše. Škodí všem tělním buňkám - rozpouští svaly, poškozuje játra, žaludeční sliznici.

Marihuana není bez rizika -
u disponovaných může spustit schizofrenii, a její kouření je pro plíce ještě o něco nezdravější, než tabák.

Pronásledování konzumentů marihuany je státním pokrytectvím.

Zástupci státu řeší jen takové problémy, na které stačí a které je moc nezatíží - diskriminace malé skupiny "těch co hulej" jim přinese kýžené body jak u veřejnosti co nehulí (a chlastá) tak u těch, co profitují z konzumního životního stylu pivem omývaných televizních mozků.

Zákazy neřeší nic.
Ba právě naopak - Co je zakázáno, to u dospívajících rázem získá na atraktivitě.

Naštěstí je naše policie pozoruhodně sociálně citlivá a celkem rozumná, navzdory své negativní pověsti.

I když mají k buzeraci huličů všechny páky, hulení i držení menšího množství trávy běžně tolerují. A i když se konzument THC něčeho dopustí - nebývá stíhán kvůli držení drogy, ale za trestný čin či přestupek, který (i pod jejím vlivem) spáchal.

Opět platí, že lidé, ať už v uniformě nebo bez ní, bývají rozumnější, než politici.

Zdá se, že si někdo buzerací menšiny chce zvýšit popularitu. Zvláště pro politiky ze stáje KDU-ČSL je to naprosto typické.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:55

skeptický napsal(a):

Vaše děti jsou v dobrých rukou,mohu spát.

Nezodpovědné je hlásat svoje teorie jiným.

Titulek vašeho článku doufám povede k zákonu proti zpochybňování neškodnosti marihuany.

S Vaší poslední větou souhlasím.
16. 01. 2009 | 20:59

Pocestny napsal(a):

Hajný, proboha, to není strychnin, to nikoho normálního nezabije, protože jsou miliony těch, kteří ochutnají, ale jen tisíce těch, kteří na tom ujedou.

A ujedou na tom proto, protože prostě někde v jejich osobnosti je díra, kterou ta droga zaplní, někde je v duši bolest, kterou ta droga přehluší.

Droga je "sociální anesteze", tedy látka, která vám jednak vybuduje pocit svého vnitřního světa, když venku lepší nemáte, za druhé funguje jako olej na hladině, zklidňuje moře, potahuje smysly tím filterm, který zdánlivě nepustí do hlavy všechny ty věci, které v ní mít nechceme, je to jako okamžitá dovolená od života, která ovšem vždy končí palčivým rádem, nejdříve psychicky, posléze fyzicky.

Opět, s omluvou za krutou upřímnost, něco v ní prostě špatně bylo, něco hluboko uvnitř, něco s čím se neuměla podělit, před čím nakonec našla tu jedinou, konečnou únikovou trasu, do nevědomí.

Petr z Tábora -
marijuáána vás zabije stejně rychle / pomalu jako kouření čehokoliv jiného. Narozdíl od nikotinu je ale THC látkou NEnávykovou.
Znovu opakuji, víc než nikotin, je návykový už jen pervitin a crack
16. 01. 2009 | 21:00

ALT napsal(a):

pro Petra Gelbart,
nedělejte si hlavu s nějakou chybičkou, ostatně, ať vám to nějaký učitel/ka ČJ zkusí ohodnotit možná budete mít lepší známku než někteří z nás.
pro Lex, hezký komentář,
doplnil bych k tomu jen společenské pokrytectví - které se týká nás všech - jak definovat kde je v případě zdraví ohrožujícího chování hranice osobního - tedy nedotknutelného a týkajícího se nás všech?
16. 01. 2009 | 21:05

xTomas napsal(a):

Já plně souhlasím s paní Petrou. Vnímám to stejně.
16. 01. 2009 | 21:06

Hajný napsal(a):

to pocestný:
Možná,nebo spíše asi máte pravdu.Já nejsem odborník na drogy a na psychiku mladých dívek už vůbec ne.Ale vaše slova nebudu nikde opakovat a před matkou té dívky už vůbec ne.Já osobně si myslím,že příčinou byly ony jedničky ve škole.

Z toho sebevražedného stavu ji dostal Marko,ten jediný měl trpělivost a pochopení ji hodiny denně poslouchat.Doktoři do ní cpali jen oblbující prášky.A léčitelé z ní tahali jen peníze.
16. 01. 2009 | 21:17

ALT napsal(a):

pro Pocestný
ten zlom který odstartuje to - špatně v hlavě, není přece jasný popis,
co takhle zkusit přirovnání k alergikům ti taky mají špatně v hlavě?
16. 01. 2009 | 21:17

Michal Macek napsal(a):

ty hopperi na tom vobrazku maj kalhoty nad kotniky (!) a ten list nevim od ceho je ale urcite neni konopnej - to decko co to kreslilo je totalne mimo a out :)
16. 01. 2009 | 21:43

Zkouřenec napsal(a):

Paní Gelbart, vemte svoje mláďátka, nacpěte se trávou a přijďte do ÚL. Tady je cikánů, to si pokecáte, pohulíte a etnozazpíváte. Možná Vás zkopou a okradou, ale to k multikulti patří. "Hodně štěstí"
16. 01. 2009 | 21:58

Ares napsal(a):

V jedné knížce jsem četl něco ve stylu „Každý máme ve své duši prázdné místo, které něčím musíme zaplnit. Pro někoho je to náboženství nebo umění, pro jiné třeba láska a pro mě to byly vždy drogy“. Asi by to chtělo se více snažit, aby lidé tyhle prázdné místa měli co nejmenší a k zaplnění bylo na výběr i něco jiného než drogy.
16. 01. 2009 | 21:59

Pavel napsal(a):

to Pocestný
Do loňska jsem pracoval v protidrogovém nestátním zařízení, ale s odborníken Vašeho ražení jsem se (přestože znám snad všechny v naší malé zemičce)za ty roky nesetkal. Mohl bych, prosím, vědět jaká je odborná zkušenost, když si troufáte drogové problémy tak suverénně vysvětlovat včetně diagnózy oné dívky.
16. 01. 2009 | 22:13

Al Jouda napsal(a):

Žádný mladý a zdravý člověk nepotřebuje k životu nějakou drogu. Kouřením tabáku to začíná, kouřením marjánky to pokračuje a končí to u heroinu. Znáte nějakého nekuřáka, který si píchá heroin ?
Zkouřenému dítěti je všechno jedno a není schopno se učit nebo něco udělat. Proto by se mělo kouření u mladistvých trestat tělesnými tresty, protože jedině z těch mají respekt.
16. 01. 2009 | 22:52

Tupelo napsal(a):

klaar z reykjaviku, Leary se asi klasifikaci predstavitele ceske protidrogove centraly chechta z orbitu (zapojit, naladit, vypadnout ;)). Jinak, oolong jsem objevil nedavno a hned se stal mym favoritem.

Schematicke rozdeleni drog je napr. zde: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... .

Zkourenec, proc sem motate cikany? Jestli mate na mysli dealery (i ty bile ovsem), tak mozna prave tech by ubylo kdyby existovala legalni moznost si marihuanu koupit ci vypestovat pro vlastni potrebu. Ale asi vam slo o neco jineho.
16. 01. 2009 | 22:57

skeptický napsal(a):

Když chcete položit zemi,dovážejte drogy.Starý osvědčený koloniální nástroj.

Pod vedením osvoboditelů Afganistán produkuje 90% světové produkce opia.

Vrchol pokrytectví.
Přečtěte si něco o opiové válce.
16. 01. 2009 | 23:03

Helena napsal(a):

Máte naprostou pravdu.
A když vidím, jak to lidé - hezky od prvního příspěvku - nedovedou pochopit, tak to docela nahání hrůzu.

Kdysi jsem obdržela docela hezký leták, který říkal zhruba "Nefetujte. A když už fetujete, tak si to nepíchejte. A když už si to musíte píchat, tak používejte vždy novou sterilní jehlu. A jestli nebudete používat vždy novou jehlu, tak si jí aspoň nechávejte jenom pro sebe."

Hodně podobná mi přijde třeba abstinence-only sex ed. Recenzuje babča Palinová.
16. 01. 2009 | 23:32

petragelbart napsal(a):

To Zkourenec: No konecne komentar na urovni. Ad kradeze, k dnesnimu datu me oloupili (nebo se o to snazili) pouze lide vypadajici jako bili Cesi a jelikoz ja jsem Romka, asi mate pravdu -- patri to k multikulti. O multikulti zkopani by nekteri mi pribuzni a pratele mohli rict naprosto to same.
"Hodne stesti" a pozor na lidi vsech barev!
17. 01. 2009 | 00:07

petragelbart napsal(a):

To Nefetak: Zruda mozna jsem, nikde vsak netvrdim, ze marihuana je neskodna! Pokud mi nejaky rodic opravdu prijde rozflakat oblicej, bohuzel me asi neprekvapi, ze dite z takoveho prostredi propadlo marihuane, "neskodnemu" alkoholu ktery dealuje kazda samoska, nebo jakekoli jine omamne latce.

Asi mate nejakou hodne bolestivou zkusenost, coz mi je velmi lito. Mohu jen opakovat, pokud to dostatecne nevyplyva z clanku,ze osobne nemam rada ani drogy, ani alkohol.
17. 01. 2009 | 00:20

FV napsal(a):

Článek se mi líbí. Děkuji.
Souhlasím s http://www.libinst.cz/etext...
Jinak nemám rád, když někdo, kdo má zbraně, si hraje na boha a namlouvá si, že jeho morální soudy se musí prosazovat samopalem a šibenicí. Silně mi to připomíná některé režimy, kdy tito moralisté nakonec zabili víc lidí, než by se otrávilo nějakou hezkou kytičkou. To radši úplnou legalizace a zrušení zdravotní daně, než aby mě chránili ozbrojení moralisti.
http://ekonsvoboda.blogspot...
17. 01. 2009 | 00:53

hutor napsal(a):

Pravda je pravda a ma svou hodnotu. Lhat se nema. Konopi (nesnasim uzivani nesmyslne novych let pro neco, co nasi predkove staleti ne-li tisicileti pestovali a pouzivali) tvrda droga neni. Nikdo nema lhat natoz policista. Tim to pro me konci a zabyvat se uvahami o dobrote a spatnosti nehodlam. Jsem rad, ze jsou mezi nami takovi lide jako autorka. Hodne stesti.
17. 01. 2009 | 01:04

Lena napsal(a):

Tak jsem si to všechno přečetla a na některých reakcích je vidět, jak zhulenci vyjeli, když někdo (příkladně vlk) nepříjemně zavadil o jejich berličku.
Když je tedy marihuana nenávyková (což fakticky je), proč se tedy tak chovají? Myslím, že návykový je ten pocit úniku, a mám dojem, že zvyknout si na možnost úniku z reality, je také nebezpečná závislost.

Naprosto souhlasím s tím, že alkohol a cigára jsou taky drogy. A měly by se tudíž také zakázat. Podle mého by to nebyla žádná škoda (ačkoliv nejsem vysloveně abstinent). Je fakt, že tolik jointů naráz jako cigaret se vyhulit nedá. Prostě proto, že člověk po určitém množství jointů "odpadne". Ale vliv na zdraví se tím nesnižuje, protože onemocnění jako je například rakovina se údajně statisticky vyvine dříve a je rozvinutější než po obyčejných cigárech.

Nikdy jsem neměla k marihuaně velkou toleranci, ale poté, co jsem asi 8 měsíců bydlela s kuřáky marihuany, je moje tolerance na nule. A je mi jedno, kam se bude oficiálně řadit.

Souhlasím s Pocestným, že droga nahrazuje něco, co člověku chybí. Ale komu z nás nic v dušičce nechybí? Každý máme nějaké slabé místo, komplex nebo něco podobného. Proto, pokud to domyslíme do konce, při legalizaci marihuany či jiných drog bychom prakticky všichni měli být vystaveni riziku propadnutí závislosti, stejně jako závislosti na alkoholu a nikotinu. Z toho důvodu se mi jeví zákaz marihuany jako prostěšný, i když v porovnání s legálními drogami pokrytecký.

Dotaz píše, že to je jen věc kuřáka, jestli si nějakého jointa vyhulí. Myslím, že ne. Nemám chuť potkávat zhulené řidiče, kterým se zdá všechno veselé, bezproblematické a cítí se být v pohodě, přitom jedou naprosto neúměrnou rychlostí, zatáčka, nezatáčka - to je konkrétní příklad ze života z jízdy se zhulencem.

Moje zkušenost ze společného bydlení byla naprosto otřesná. Neustálé konflikty mezi kuřáky, do kterých mě taky zatahovali, neschopnost řešit běžné životní situace jako je drobná údržba bytu, absence paměti - opravdu nic si nebyli schopni zapamatovat, "odpadávání" po hulení do jakéhosi transu, kdy nevnímali své okolí, ale po pár hodinách sedli do auta a jako profesionální řidiči vyrazili na cesty, a samozřejmě chronický nedostatek peněz, a to i těch, které jsem jim dala já na nájem, takže nás málem z bytu vyhodili. Pro doplnění: po asi 7 měsících se začaly objevovat i tvrdé drogy (možná jen proto, že se přestali "hlídat" přede mnou). A byly tam i další věci související s nedostatkem peněz, protože když nejsou, je třeba je nějak opatřit, že?

Osobně nevidím důvod, proč by společnost měla být tolerantní k další droze, než ke kterým už tolerantní je. Nemám dojem, že lidi, kteří nemají žádné ideály, o nic neusilují, nesnaží se nic budovat, nevzdělávají se, mají problémy i v práci, neumí pěstovat partnerské vztahy apod., ale jen tak bezcílně vegetují a občas nás ohrožují (příkladně v autech) nebo případně někoho okradou, jsou nějakým velkým přínosem pro společnost a ta bych k jejich počínání měla být nevšímavá a tolerantní. Vhodným způsobem by to měla dát najevo, ať už formou osvěty nebo restrikcí.
17. 01. 2009 | 02:12

Premysl napsal(a):

to Petra Gelbart
Prosim, jak vy osobne budete reagovat na experimenty Vaseho ditete, kterych se doufam, nikdy nedockate. Mam na mysli, ze s Vami napr.:prestava komunikovat, hubne, ma zmeny nalad, obcas velke zornicky, obcas modrinu z telocviku primo na predlokti atd. Predem dekuju za odpoved
17. 01. 2009 | 02:23

petragelbart napsal(a):

Premysl:
Na experimenty deti bych reagovala podle toho, o jakou latku se jedna, pokud bych to spolehlive vedela, a podle toho, zda se jedna o zavislost (psychickou, chemickou) nebo vikendove huleni ci piti. Alkohol by me urcite znepokojoval stejne jako v podobnem mnozstvi trava. Pokud by se jednalo o vic nez obcasnou zalezitost, poradila bych se s odborniky a vsemozne bych se snazila pomoct diteti, aby nemelo potrebu napr. kourit travu nebo denne vysedavat v hospode.

Jak snad vyplyva z clanku, vim, ze spousta dospivajicich marihuanu zkusi (a tim myslim i nekolikrat, ba nekdy i dosti pravidelne) a bez vetsich problemu dokonci stredni skolu, casto (v USA) vysokou. Nekdy kolem dvaceti az petadvaceti tito lide zacnou kourit o poznani mene nebo prestanou uplne. Co se tyce me hypoteticke reakce na "hulici" dite, rozdhodne bych nerikala "je to v pohode, huli kazdy a nikomu to nic neudela." Zeptala bych se na jeho/jeji duvody k uzivani toho ci onoho a pokusila bych se v klidu probrat rizika. Dala bych jasne najevo, ze kdyz je nekdo obden zhuleny, to uz neni normalni (i kdyz nekdo si dava cely zivot po veceri jointa a funguje normalne, ale o tom bych se asi nezminovala).

V zadnem pripade bych ale diteti nenaznacila, ze kdyz o vikendu kouri travu, je to na stejne urovni jako tvrde drogy. Proste chci aby moje deti mely pravdive informace o vselijakych rizicich vcetne sexu, prekracovani povolene rychlosti, alkoholismu, o ruznych kategoriich drog, atd., atd. Timto, doufam, koncim obhajobu svych dobrych umyslu. Pokud si stale nekdo mysli, ze mi je jedno, jestli moje nebo kterekoli deti nadmerne uzivaji marihuanu, na takovem nazoru uz asi nic nezmenim.

Jen uvaha na zaver: znam tucty lidi (profesori byvaji zarnym prikladem), kteri na stredni a na vysoke uzivali lehke drogy, nekdy vic nez jen o vikendu, a casem z toho vyrostli. Samozrejme, ze marihuana muze take nicit zivoty (osobne takovy pripad neznam, ale tusim, ze nekteri prispevatele ano). Pribehy zavislaku na tvrdych drogach (a alkoholiku) ale byvaji celkove o poznani mene uspesne. A deti by tohle mely setsakramentsky dobre vedet.
17. 01. 2009 | 03:08

Honza Český napsal(a):

Když pan Frydrych označil marihuanu za tvrdou drogu, tak lhal. Možná v dobré víře, ale o to hůře. V tom má podle mne autorka blogu pravdu.
Jenže my tu žijeme ve lži, my jsme na to zvyklí, nám to tolik nevadí …
Pan Lex naznačil, že jde o jinou kulturu, drogovou kulturu – místo alkoholu tráva a že prý se to neujme …
Jenže on je to problém kulturně generační – staří chlastají, mladí kouří
Jedni zcela legálně, po druhých jdou hoši v kuklách
Ono je totiž snažší chytit pár „hadráků“ (psal Lex), než ty, co jedou v tvrdých drogách
A navíc, ti „hadráci“ policii neuplatí …
17. 01. 2009 | 04:40

eM napsal(a):

Ten nový šéf protidrogové centrály je evidentně fanatik. To je nebezpečné. Policista by měl pracovat podle zákona, t. j. porovnávat v rámci své pravomoci posuzované věci s legislativou a kde uvidí rozpor, konat. Jemu nepřísluší výklad, co je tvrdá droga. Zákonodárci řekli, že marihuana tvrdá není. K výkladu zákona, t. j. produktu zákonodárců je oprávněn pouze soud. Raději bych na jeho místě viděl stařičkého policajta přeloženého z dopravky a konajícího svoji práci podle zákona 8 a půl hodiny denně než tohoto mocí nemocného fanatického spalovače Savonarolu, který si zřejmě na svou pěst bude o víkendech lepit falešné dredy a bude z dealerů lámat jointa. Já trávu párkrát do roka beru a brát ji budu, přesto že jsem poměrně vysokým státním úředníkem. A žiju. Mám dva VŠ tituly a určitě jsem po prvním jointu nespadl do bahna podsvětí. Až si bude chtít dát můj 15-letý syn, jediné co udělám je to, že mu seženu slušný matroš a ne aby si kazil plíce nějakou čutkou. Byli jsme za Komorouse, budeme i po něm. Tabák je také droga a bere ji legálně 50% národa. Kdyby tenhle člověk honil opravdu velké ryby, s tvrdými nitrožilními drogami, tak ho budu uznávat. Pokud bude vydávat za úspěch 5 vytržených rostlin Cannabisu u nějakého chataře, budu jím opovrhovat jako kdysi Komorousem.
17. 01. 2009 | 07:08

Beda napsal(a):

...startovací a přestupní droga k tvrdým je především alkohol...tráva to není, je to lež...
17. 01. 2009 | 11:15

zdenekmihalco napsal(a):

Dobrý den,

smazal jsem dva hrubě urážlivé texty (plus pár tradičních spamů pana Adamce), které byly v rozporu se záměry těchto stránek, tj. vytvářet prostor pro věcnou a slušnou diskusi.

Děkuji za pochopení,
Zdeněk Mihalco,
správce blogů a disksí
17. 01. 2009 | 11:18

Virus napsal(a):

Lena 17.01.2009 02:12:25
Každý asi občas na chvíli potřebujem "vypnout" od reality. Někdo se obrátí k Bohu (jakémukoliv), někdo medituje, někdo se namaže, jiný zhulí, další si vyplavuje endorfiny dlouhým během... Proč něco z toho má být "správné" a jiné ne?(samozřejmě pokud při tom nepoškozuje své "okolí")

Proč chcete někoho dospělého nutit aby se vzdělával, aby měl ideály, aby o něco usiloval...
Proč, k sakru, by někdo měl být "přínosem pro společnost". Co je to ta Vaše imaginární,všezahrnující "společnost"? Co je to "být přínosem"? Kdybyste napsala: být přínosem pro rodinu, pro přátele a pod., ještě bych to asi dokázal pochopit, ale takto mi tyhle fráze mi silně zavání totalitou. "Pracujme všichni pro zdar naší socialistické vlasti"... Děkuji, nechci, užil jsem si to dost dlouho.

P.S. Zhulenec řítící se nadměrnou rychlostí mi přijde dosti zvláštní. Vnímání rychlosti pod vlivem travky je, nejen dle mé zkušenosti, spíše opačné. Takže zřejmě byl pod vlivem ještě něčeho jiného než travky. Podobně podivné mi přijdou hádky ve zhuleném stavu. Pochechtávání nebo naopak uzavření se do sebe to ano, ale agresivita?
17. 01. 2009 | 11:21

Jirik Rejpálek napsal(a):

Pro mě osobně je nejsilnější drogou co jsem kdy okusil hudba, jak její poslech , tak tvorba ...
Jak dlouho bude trvat , než se nějakej vychlastanej debil rozhodne, že hudba je taky nebezpečná droga??? Pokud pan Frydrych říká "Stop, Marihuana=tvrdá droga" já říkám "Stop všem co chlastají a fungují na vysokých postech ve státní správě" TEĎ HNED !
(je mi 27,marihuanu občas kouřím už od 17, alkoholu se občas napiju, mam výborně placenou práci, pohodovej život, nejsem žádnej vyfetlej debil, ostatním OPRAVDU TVRDÝM drogám se bráním zuby nehty)
17. 01. 2009 | 11:23

Pavla napsal(a):

Největším problémem, myslím, je, že se k drogám uchylují i děti a mladiství. Místo, aby se radovali ze života ve své společnosti přes sport, hudbu či jiné koníčky. Nechápu, proč si musí dělat náladu drogami, ať marjánkou nebo alkoholem. Zdá se, že se toto děje z nudy. Dnes moderní techno také k požívání marihuany přímo vede, protože vydržet přešlapovat z jedné nohy na druhou mnoho hodin při nicneříkající hudbě bez nějakého povzbuzení snad ani nejde.
U dospělých bych toto možná ještě tolerovala, protože většina již má svůj rozum a ví, kam až může zajít. Kdežto děti se velice snadno nechají strhnout do propasti. Ale především vidím odpovědnost v rodině. Je třeba dětem neustále opakovat nebezpečí jakýchkoliv drog.Ikdyž mnohdy ani to nepomůže, pokud se dostanou do nebezpečné party. Musíme podporovat děti v zájmových kroužcích, aby se nepoflakovaly po sídlištích a nenudily se.
17. 01. 2009 | 12:20

Be napsal(a):

To se vyřeší časem samo, až bude víc těch, co jsou proti kriminalizaci marihuany.Diskutovat o tom můžem, ale moc smyslu to nemá, protože pro většinu diskutujících je to otázka víry a argumenty je nepřesvědčí. Někteří zde uvádějí smutné příběhy a dávají je, pro mě nesmyslně, do souvislosti s marihuanou, jako by se život těch mladých lidí snad vyvíjel jinak, kdyby marihuany nebylo. Moje zkušenosti s marihuanou: nikdy jsem ji nezkusil, nekouří ji ani 16 letá dcera, oba synové si marihuanu dopřávají denně asi 8 let. Nevím o žádném kamarádovi mých synů, který by marihuanu nekouřil. Uživateli pervitinu, heroinu atd. buď pohrdají nebo některé litují. Většina dospělých, s kterými jsem o jejich zkušenostech s marihuanou mluvil a zkusili ji, mi řekla, že nechápou, co na tom ti mladí mají. Be, ročník 1955
17. 01. 2009 | 13:10

mirka napsal(a):

Ja bych zacala vyukou logiky na zakladni skole. Nejake zaklady - vysvetlit zaklady kauzality, nejcastejsi chyby, co je to pricina a nasledek... Do te doby bude cernobile Komorousosvsko-Frydrychovske mysleni typu marihuana dela z deti fetaky a jine nesmylsy vzdy vyvolavat emoce a nutit psat takove blogy.
17. 01. 2009 | 13:27

mirekP napsal(a):

Mám návrh, co takhle zvýšit spotřební daň, kdy krabička cigaret bude stát 500 Kč (a v podobném duchu legalizovat a ocenit i jointy).
A na každé krabičce bude uvedena věta "Ministr financí Ti spotřebiteli děkuje za příspěvek do státního rozpočtu".
Co vy na to?
a) nebude to nelegální, tj. nebude to tak zajímavé pro nezletilé
b) stát aspoň trošku poléčí výdaje, které má s léčbou jako následek kouření
c) stát může důsledně zakročit proti uličnímu prodeji - jedná se přece o tresný čin krácení daně
d) ekonomická závislost poptávky, nabídky a ceny udělá jasno, o kolik se má cena ještě zdvihnout aby se spotřeba těchto "výrobků" snížila
e) ihned na začátku musí být deklarováno, že společnost má zájem na vymícení těchto závislostí, ale jde cestou nikoliv zákazu ale útlumu spotřeby v návaznosti na ochotě lidí to platit.
17. 01. 2009 | 14:39

petragelbart napsal(a):

P.S. Vsem rodicum preji, aby jim jejich deti duverovaly. (Duvera je jednim ze zakladnich predpokladu pro zdrave vztahy v rodine = protidrogova prevence.) U nekterych rodin zastoupenych na teto diskusi mam bohuzel obavy...
17. 01. 2009 | 14:43

Pavla napsal(a):

Mirek P. Myslíte, že když zdraží cigarety a drogy, tak se nebude kouřit a drogovat? Jen se bude více krást, protože na tu drogu si lidé budou chtít opatřit peníze stůj co stůj. A doplatí na vše zase jen rodiny. Zdražili např.pivo, myslíte, že se nepije? Jen o to mají rodiny zase méně peněz. Snad zpočátku to trochu omezí, ale později je to zase stejné. Jako benzín, cigarety atd.
17. 01. 2009 | 15:04

Tupelo napsal(a):

mirekP, Vas navrh je zajimavy, ale zkusme jit bod po bodu:

a. trava by byla stejne nedostupna jako ted, jen z jinych duvodu; takze stale zajimava.
b. chtelo by to realne data, mozna bychom dosli k tomu ze alkohol by mel mit spotrebni dan nekolikanasobne vyssi nez marijuana. Zvladli by to prumerni obcane po vepru, knedlu a zelu?
c. mate pravdu, i AlCaponeho zatkli za dane, pokud se sahne statu na penize, je to horsi nez cokoliv jineho. Ale je to zarovne smutne. Jinak proti ulicnim dealerum muze zakrocit i nyni a drzim jim v tom palce, narozdil od pronasledovani (i kdyz pro Cesko asi silny vyraz) lidi co si vypestuji pro vlastni potrebu (ci zname).
d. pokud by stat chtel konkurovat cernemu trhu, mohl byste se dockat prave opacneho pohybu ceny, totiz zlevneni. Od urcite nizke urovne cen by se uz mafii podstupovat riziko nevyplatilo. Na tuto uroven by musel stat sestoupit.
e. to beru, kompletni seznam zavislosti by mohl dodat dr. Nespor odvedle. Co ale s lidma, kteri travu kouri, ale nejsou zavisli?

Myslim ze tudy cesta nevede. :)
17. 01. 2009 | 15:10

Zdenda napsal(a):

Ach vy kuříci trávy! Vyhulenci, trosky, lidi, kteří neví co z volným časem...
No jistě, tohle jsem si taky dřív myslel. Bylo to ještě předtím, než se v tuhé zimě rozhořel zapalovač a mé plíce poznaly první dávku aromatického kouře z konopí. Teď se ze mě stane vyvrhel na okraji společnosti, pomyslel jsem si tenkrát.
Světe div se! Nestal jsem se jím. Kromě chvíli trvající infantilní nálady se nestalo vlastně vůbec nic. Druhý den jsem si šel zaběhat... a ani tady žádný rozdíl. Zkusil jsem si zapálit znova. A pak zas. Takhle párkrát do měsíce. Kromě veselé nálady se opět nestalo nic. Záhada.
Přišlo zkouškový a mě svírala obava. Dokážu se ještě něco naučit, nebo už mám vyhulenej mozek? Asi nemám. Zkoušky jsem dal všechny a příští rok jdu k bakalářce.
Možná mě trochu mrzí, že mě někdo bere jako vyvrhele společnosti. Jako někoho, kdo neví co s životem. Ale co, mám i jiné věci na práci. K Vánocům jsem dostal kytaru. Dost mě baví na ní hrát, tráva netráva...
17. 01. 2009 | 15:22

KVS napsal(a):

Čau Petro, a taky by se měl zakázat sex, protože ten by měl být dovolen jen k plození dětí. Táááák. Ať maj po žížalkách všeci... Klára (nekuřačka čehokoliv apožívačka alkoholu tak příležitostná, že bych prošla i u Nešpora...)
17. 01. 2009 | 15:32

čtenář napsal(a):

Hned zkraje první reakce.
Nenechte se kecy o pravopisu vyvádět z míry. Čeština je dost těžká a Vy jí zvládáte velmi dobře.
17. 01. 2009 | 17:42

čtenář napsal(a):

Tak jsem to pročetl a mám pocit, že VŠICHNI, co sem přispěli mají svůj díl pravdy.
Já osobně kromě piva, vína, tvrdého alholu a marjány nikdy nic jiného nevyzkoušel . Ani tzv. klepky /jestli se nemýlím/, což jsou některé léky, které určitým lidem drogu nahrazují.
Nebudu se zabývat alkoholem, ale marjánu jsem několikrát kouřil. V jednom případě proto, že to bylo zvykem u členů kapely, ve které jsem hrál. Oproti jim to se mnou nic nedělalo, žádný smích , žádná povnesená nálada a tak mi přestali nabízet, že je toho pro mě prý škoda.
Ve druhém případě mi řidič sanitky nabíl trochu úrodičky, že prý je to dobré vyčadit před souloží. - Člověk pak má prý pocit, že za něj souloží někdo jiný. - Po obřadném obcování s marjánkou jsme pak nakonec zase souložili jenom my dva , nikdo za nás nic neudělal.
A tím také marjána skončila.
Nepočítal bych marjánu mezi tvrdé drogy, protože ve svém okolí znám , kdo jí hulí, ale pokud se mu udělá kdy špatně, tak většinou z přemíry chlastu.
Docela zábavnou byla epizoda , kdy Michal Amrož /muzikant/ šel do Barťáku s plnými kapsami /rozhodně více než malé množství/ marjány, hulil a dožadoval se veřejného zatčení, že překračuje zákony této země.
Samozřejmě ho nezavřeli , bylo by to směšné.
Neznám statistiky, neumím to posoudit celkově, jaká je skutečná situace, ale soudě podle svého okolí bych marjánu určitě neřadil mezi prudce nebezpečné drogy.
Ono možná i záleží na tom , jak si s tím kdo poradí osobně.
17. 01. 2009 | 18:05

Fry Gio napsal(a):

S autourkou souhlasim! Problemem je,ze hazime marihuanu do jednoho pytle s pervitinem, heroinem atd! Tohle je totiz velmi podstatna chyba, ktera vede k tomu,ze mladez nedela rozdily a tudiz okusi co je prave po ruce! Kdyby znali rozdily mezi narkotiky a psychodeliky,vse by bylo podstatne jinak! Jenze,kdyz tyhle zakladni znalosti nemaji ani sefove policie,politici a jini radoby zasveceni,nema je ani verejnost a mlati se jen prazdna slama, zatim co si mladi rvou jehly do tela! Zustava otazkou, proc je tomu tak! Mozna hlavne proto,ze kdyby se rekla pravda,zajem o narkotika by zacal klesat a tudiz i prijmy pro vsechny do obchodu zapojene a prohlasi li nekdo ve vysoke funkci marihuanu za tezkou drogu,je bud neinformovany,nebo take zainteresovany! To by take mohlo platit pro politiky a policii,uz od devadesatych let kdy se vytvarely zakony o navykovych latkach! Jen pro dokresleni,prijmy z obchodu marihuanou jsou uplne smesne v porovnani s prijmy obchodu s narkotiky! Na zaver uz jen dodat,ze vsechny drogy skodi,ale proc vystavovat mladez tomu horsimu zlu tvrzenim,ze vsechno je stejne,i kdyz neni! Mladez bude vzdy experimentovat,s tim nikdo nic nenadela,ale je na nas,bude li to joint,nebo jehla! V soucasne dobe pohled spolecnosti ovlivnen nazory sefu policie a politiky, nuti mladez sahat hlavne po jehlach,bohuzel! Pokud nebudeme rozlisovat narkotika od psychodelik a nase deti to ucit,nic se nezmeni,spise naopak!
17. 01. 2009 | 19:22

Zuzana Korankova napsal(a):

Super, souhlasim.
Jeste prosim o rozebrani problematiky alkoholu podobnym zpusobem, muzete pritom rovnou objasnit proc to s prohibici dopada tak spatne v Norsku..
17. 01. 2009 | 23:30

Lena napsal(a):

Virusi,

tak jinak:

člověk je společenský tvor a díky tomu, že spolupracoval se vypracoval. Nepřizpůsobivé jedince, kteří pro prvobytně pospolnou společnost neměli přínos nebo ji ohrožovali, prostě vykopli z jeskyně a nechali chcípnout. Po desítkách tisících letech jsou tu stále tací, kteří si myslí, že nespolupracovat je jenom jejich věc. Nicméně výhody, které poskytuje spolupracující spolek, vůči němuž se vyhraňují, beze studu využívají. Takže si představme, že tu budeme všichni zhulení a zpití. Když to nevadí u "pár" jedinců, proč by to mělo vadit u všech? Faktem je, že tito "svobodomyslní" jedinci jsou vlastně v mnoha případech (možná většině případech) paraziti.

A teď tedy prakticky, ne tak teoreticky, když Vám ta teorie připadá tak komunistická: lidi, kteří de facto kradou či vsázejí při psích zápasech, aby měli peníze, jsou "mimo sebe" i v autě, ničí pronajatý byt, nespolupracují na léčení své nemoci (kromě lázní zdarma, což platíme mi ostatní), nutí lidi kolem kouřit s nimi a jsou agresivní ke svému okolí, nejsou přínosem ani pro spolubydlícího, ani pro majitele bytu, příliš ani pro zaměstnavatele, ani pro rodinu, širší okolí a ani pro společnost jako celek. Jsou jen na obtíž. Všem. Zprostředkovaně přes daně i těm, které osobně neznají. Tolik moje zkušenost.

Je samozřejmé, že je otázka toho, kam až člověk svoji závislost nechá zajít a jaké nemoci si díky ní vypěstuje.
17. 01. 2009 | 23:47

Jaroslav Staník napsal(a):

Pokud chceme skutečně bojovat proti drogám tak by jsme neměli mít Gambrinus ligu, muži by neměli mít své dny a "nádo zatapiť" by se mělo jen dřevem. Celé je to jen pokritctví a nějaké protidrogové brigády nic nevyřeší. Chápu, že se musí stavět do role důležitých a nenehranitelných aby do nich stát pumpoval peníze. Kdyby je zrušili, nic zásadního by se na trhu s narkotikami nestalo.
18. 01. 2009 | 09:16

Jedla napsal(a):

To nevyřešíte. Příchod jiných drog než C2H5OH je prostě společenská změna, a ta mnohé bolí. Lex (16.01.2009 19:29:32 ) má velkou pravdu v tom, že jde o příjmaný kodex víc než o tvrdá fakta o zdravotních či společenských důsledcích. Jenže pomíjí právě tu změnu. Myšlenky, peníze, lidé i zboží, včetně drog, běhají z místa na místo rychleji. Když může Kentucky vyvážet bourbon do Kolumbie, proč by nemohla Kolumbie exportovat za stejných podmínek koku do Kentucky? Indiánskou (omlouvám se, mluvím o native americans) společnost alkohol bolel. Naši společnost bude bolet koks. Tu změnu nezastavil Komorous a nezastaví ji jeho nástupce. Je to po koncentračním spádu, difuze probíhá, a žádnou semipermeabilní membránu, která by naše zla pouštěla ven ale cizí zla nepouštěla dovnitř, naše buňka nemá.
Diskuse, která se vede, včetně obhajoby konopí a porovnávání jeho účinků a alkoholem, je dobrý a legitimní způsob přizpůsobení společnosti reálným změnám. Ta diskuse časem povede ke změnám zvyklostí jako pramenů práva (znovu viz Lex) a teprve úplně nakonec změně pozitivního, kódovaného práva. Bolet to bude každopádně. Ta změna je tu, ale policajti logicky nemohou být první, kdo ji akceptují ...
18. 01. 2009 | 10:17

Virus napsal(a):

Lena 17.01.2009 23:47:46
Pokud na moji větu „Každý asi občas na chvíli potřebujem "vypnout" od reality. Někdo se obrátí k Bohu (jakémukoliv), někdo medituje, někdo se namaže, jiný zhulí, další si vyplavuje endorfiny dlouhým během“, reagujete „Takže si představme, že tu budeme všichni zhulení a zpití. Když to nevadí u "pár" jedinců, proč by to mělo vadit u všech“, tak asi další debata nemá smysl.
Stejně tak máte trochu hokej v pojmech co je to parazitování a co neúčast na karierních krysích závodech.

K druhému odstavci. To co tady popisujete se „ poněkud„ liší od Vašeho prvního příspěvku. „neschopnost řešit běžné životní situace jako je drobná údržba bytu“ x „ničí pronajatý byt „ Přesto nechápu co vidíte tak strašného na sázkách na psí zápasy? (vím samozřejmě, že to není oficiálně povolené sázení.). Kdyby sázeli na závody koní, tak by Vám to nevadilo (jde o povolené sázky) nebo jste proti veškerým sázkám? „nutí lidi kolem kouřit s nimi“ Jak Vás může nikdo nutit kouřit? To Vám to snad násilím cpe do pusy? Nebo jde jen o to, že svým spolubydlícím nedokážete říct: V mém pokoji se nekouří?
Každý občas řešíme, že jsme si blbě vybrali: spolubydlící, nájemníka, zaměstnance, partnera, domácího , zaměstnavatele, tchýni…
Nějak nevím, zda je k tomu nutné vytahovat i jejich „užitečnost pro společnost“ a oblíbenou mantru „co na to daňový poplatník“ (za bolševika se hovořilo o „společném bohatství nás všech“).
Já, jako daňový poplatník, zůstávám v klidu ;-). Tohle mi fakt žíly nerve.
P.S,: pokud Vaši spolubydlící skutečně překračovali zákony např. jízdou pod vlivem travky, či něčeho jiného, tak to samozřejmě v pořádku nebylo.
18. 01. 2009 | 10:28

čtenář napsal(a):

Marihuana NENÍ předstupněm k tvrdším drogám!
Přečtěte si studie, ty naopak prokazují, že je to blbost.

Tohle je jeden z nejtrapnějších mýtů o marihuaně. Stejný argument mohu použít jinak:

Alkohol je předstupněm k tvrdým drogám - všichni uživatelé tvrdých drog předtím zkoušeli alkohol. Ale i když je to pravda, tak to neznamená, že když budu zkoušet alkohol, že nutně musím zkusit tvrdé drogy.

Navíc účinky vysokého množství alkoholu a marihuany jsou poněkud odlišné.
U alkoholu je při předávkování mnohem větší riziko smrti, než u marihuany.

Inu v ČR, není se čemu divit, pokračuje politika protidrogové policie ve stylu USA, nemůžeme chtít po policistech, aby si snad četli nějaké odborné studie nebo snad dokonce četli knihy :D
18. 01. 2009 | 11:14

čtenář napsal(a):

jinak samozřejmě, marihuana má i nezanedbatelné negativní účinky, zejména při pravidelném a častém užívání.
A i právě proto by měla protidrogová policie rozlišovat drogy. Protože v současné době většina kuřáků marihuany, kteří neberou ostatní drogy si myslí o protidrogové policii, že jsou to hlupáci a hajzlové, tím protidrogová policie ztrácí i jejich popularitu a kredit, potřebný v boji a prevenci proti tvrdým drogám.

Kdo by poslouchal či věřil někomu, kdo vám tvrdí, že joint marihuany je stejně nebezpečný jako dávka heroinu, pervitinu nebo kokainu?

Kolik lidí umřelo po jednom jointu?
Kolik lidí umřelo po první dávce heroinu, pervitinu nebo kokainu?

Doufám jen, že nový šéf mluvil pravdu, že je otevřený dialogu...
Třeba se přístup k drogám a hlavně osvěta, zlepší.
18. 01. 2009 | 11:32

Lena napsal(a):

Virusi,

s člověkem, který považuje sázky na kruté zabíjení psů za normální, jen nelegální, zábavu, si nemám co říct. Ztratila jsem chuť s Vámi probírat i to ostatní, pro mě jste ubožák. Teď už se nedivím Vašim názorům.
18. 01. 2009 | 13:31

fo-ol napsal(a):

presne tak!!! vinuta spirala lzi "ganja je stejne nebezpecna jako heroin" - "heroin zpusobuje zavislost po prvni davce" je to nejhorsi co muzeme do deti hustit. Spise bych se smiril s tim ze urcite procento populace zkratka k uzivani drog inklinuje a snazil bych se jim dostat do hlavy zakladni bezpecnostni pravidla. dostat se dnes k pravdivym informacim (napr. ze fyzicka zavislost na opiatech vznika po cca 2-3 mesicich) je dnes sice mozno, vyzaduje to ovsem aktivne se po nich pidit a zahazovat vetsinu precteneho...
18. 01. 2009 | 13:55

Virus, krutý zabiják psů napsal(a):

Leno,
Psí zápasy nekončí smrtí těch psů, ti psi jsou na to cvičeni, a jsou to zápasy jen určitých plemen. Ne, že pitbul bude zápasit s jezevčíkem.
Mohu se Vás zeptat, jaký máte názor na býčí zápasy? Podotýkám, že ti býci na svoji poslední roli v aréně cvičeni nejsou a v mnoha státech je to legální nedělní zábava....
18. 01. 2009 | 14:58

Lena napsal(a):

Kecy v kleci, Virusi.

Měla jsem to potěšení trhat tři pitbuly od sebe, když jsem nechtěla, aby se zabili. Viděla jsem, jak se rvou, jak vypadají rány. Viděl jste to Vy? A strkal byste Vy mezi ně ruce?

Víte, jak se cvičí pitbul na zápasy? Víte, že se na ten výcvik berou psy od hloupých lidí z inzerátů "daruji psa do dobrých rukou"? Pitbul si totiž to zabíjení musí natrénovat a samozřejmě ne hned na rovnocenném soupeři.

A můžu od Vás taky nechat pozdravovat do psího nebe jednoho krásného pesana, kterému jste zapomněl říct, že ten zápas nekončí smrtí. Vlastně jste to zapomněl říct jeho marihuanou prolezlému pánečkovi. Mimochodem, ti pitbulové za svým pánečkem ne a ne jít, vždycky radši seděli u mě (více méně cizího člověka). Evidentně věděli proč.

Býčí zápasy jsou taky pěkný hnus. A mě těšilo, už si s Vámi nebudu psát.
18. 01. 2009 | 15:34

Lena napsal(a):

Oprava chyby: berou se psi nikoliv psy! Omlouvám se.
18. 01. 2009 | 15:42

Pavel napsal(a):

To čtenář
Jak jsem se zmínil včera dlouho jsem pracoval v "drogách" a nejsem policajt! Alkohol a marihuana nejsou u nás předstupeň, ale iniciační (čili první) drogy. V tom je právě jejich problém a je úplně jedno, která z nich to je. Jenom alkohol je tzv. společensky přijatelný. Všiměte si reklam, kde pivo není alkohol, fernet není alkohol a když potká sob soba, tak se radostí zblázníme (hlavně ovšem stát, který si vybere spotřební daň....)
Právě americký model represe, který je vzorem pro pana K. a asi také pro jeho následovníky je právě to, čemu se v ČR musíme, ve vlastním zájmu, vyhnout (ostatně i v USA mají historickou zkušenost již z doby prohibice, že takhle to vůbec nefunguje, ale nechtějí se z toho poučit)
Paní Petra, má úplnou pravdu, když píše o svých výhradách k tomu, že se dělá protidrogová primární prevence ve škole tak, že se řekne: je to škodlivé, nedělá se to, je to zakázané. Mohu říct z vlastní zkušenoasti, že je lepší jít dělat něco jiného než tohle a takhle blbě. Příklad za všechny (jedná se o ohlas jednoho účastníka besedy o drogách ve věku 16 let) cituji:
Když to zakážou, tak budu fetovat i práškový cukr!
Takováto odezva je typická pro tento věk a navíc i pochopitelná. Proč? Na to si snad odpovíme všichni, kteří si pamatujeme, že jsme byli mladí.
Ještě k příspěvku Heleny: kdo z vás neviděl ani nečetl podobné materiály za dejte si do vyhledávače heslo Harm Reduction a porozumíte.(můžete zkusit i http://www.adiktologie.cz ,nebo http://www.drogy-info.cz)
18. 01. 2009 | 18:35

Pavel napsal(a):

To petragelbart
opravdu je Vaším oborem etnohudba?
Podle odpovědi Přemyslovi bych spíše řekl, že jste se venovala prodenství pro rodiče uživatelů drog.
Jinak Vám přeji abyste to nikdy nopotřebovala v praxi
18. 01. 2009 | 18:47

katka napsal(a):

neúplný seznam věcí, které mohou a často vytvářejí závislost a mohou nás i zabít: jídlo - hlavně cukry a tuky, vztahy - hlavně partnerské a rodiče k dětem, sport(endorfiny), práce, počítačové hry, sázení, hrací automaty, sex, alkohol, drogy, nikotin,různé rituály a jistě nnoho dalších věcí které už mně teď nenapadají. Máte pocit, že by věc vyřešilo všechno toto zakázat? Civilizace stále znovu tuto hloupost zkouší a pořád jí nedochází, že tudy cesta nevede. A ještě jednu poznámku: Výchova a zastrašování jsou 2 naprosto odlišné věci. V naší době se to nerozlišuje nebo lépe řečeno my už neumíme vychovávat moc jinak než zastrašováním. No, co byste jiného řekli svým dětem proč neužívat drogy než že je budete strašit co je zlého potká??? Vtip, je v tom, že to dlouhodobě nefunguje.
19. 01. 2009 | 13:31

JAHA napsal(a):

Ad: autor
Priznam sa, ze som necital (zatial pre nedostatok casu) reakcie na Vas clanok. Ako v predchadzajucom prispevku (na zazvonenie zvoncekov sa Vase decko splsi a rozplace sa), tak aj teraz, pouzivate priklady, ako by ste nezili v tomto svete a prostredi. Tak ako sa kazde decko (nepisem normalne - nenormalne!), ktore nechodilo do kostola a nepoculo zvonenie zvoncekov na pozdvihovanie a pred prijimanim moze rozplakat po zvuku zvonceka na Vianoce (ten zvoncek totiz vychadza z toho, ze decko co - to o zvoneni v kostole vie, a nie, ze ho prvykrat v zivote postavite pred hotovu zvoncekovu vec!), tak sa ine (nepisem normalne - nenormalne!) decko na zvuk zvonceka potesi, lebo COSI OCAKAVA. To sa tyka i tych Vasich drog. Kazde decko v tomto priestore alkohol za drogu nepovazuje (aj ked, samozrejme je). Kazde decko v tomto priestore marihuanu za drogu povazuje (aj ked, samozrejme, je). Vasa, akoze ticha a nenapadna, "neskodiaca", propaganda tzv. makkej drogy nevytvara v mladych ludoch pocit, ze drogy su zle, a ze treba bojovat uz proti tym drogam, ktore mame (tabak, alkohol), ale naopak, vy im v "priamom prenose" hovorite, hoci to aj je (moze) byt pravda, ze marihuana je neskodne ledabolo, ktore si netreba vsimat. Ste naozaj taka naivna, ci (s prepacenim) hlupa, ze si neuvedomujete, ze miesto obhajovania marihuany by ste mali radsej pisat (bez pouzitia prikladov o "neskodnosti" marihuany) o skodlivosti tabakizmu, alkoholizmu? Ved ak by sa odstanovala pomaly tato zavislost, o marihuane by ste nemuseli vobec pisat. A to ani zjavne zavadzajuce veci. Preco to potom robite? Nerozumiem.
19. 01. 2009 | 16:36

Pepa napsal(a):

Dobry den! Dle meho nazoru, cloveka ktery marihuanu hulil vice nez 5 let mohu s naprostou jistou rici, ze trava nemusi byt pro vsechny tolik skodliva. Nicmene,alespon trochu skodliva je pro VSECHNY. Snizena chut k sexu, naopak zvysena chut k jidlu (ano, to je to prejidani se potom), ztrata kratkodobe pameti (proste si to z te hlavy vyhulite).Vedle toho, kuraci cigaret pote i vice kouri (castecne se tim opet dostanou zpet do zhulenosti).U psychicky slabsich jedincu vede marihuana k mirnym az silnejsim depresim, spojenych s podrazdenosti a agresivitou. I po trave ma clovek opici,sice jinou nez po alkoholu,ale ma. Jedno pravidlo o marihuane plati pro vsechny jeji konzumenty bez rozdilu pohlavi,nabozenstvi a veku-paklize marihuanu maji, kouri ji az do te doby, dokud jim nedojde.V 99% pripadu tedy denne. Dovede si kdokoliv z vas predstavit,jak asi vypada clovek, ktery ma 2 mesice prazdnin a spoustu travy?? Obrazek necht si udela kazdy sam. Pojdme ted zase marihuanu obhajovat,OK? Alzheimer, exemy a jine choroby-zde jsem naprosto bez arguementu a marihuanu neodsuzuji. Nizozemi-zde je to preci legalni. Sam jsem tam skoro rok zil. Z Amsterdamu je v podstate misto, kam si jezdi svetova mladez kvalitne zafetovat. Tulipany, obrazy, syr a architektura tam zajima zhruba 25% navstevniku. Nizozemi zavrelo vetsinu cofeeshopu, prevazne v malych mestech, protoze mlade turisty uz nezajima nic jineho, nez hasis a trava. Svycarsko, mene znama zeme, ktera az do nedavna marihuanu tise tolerovala a nebrojila proti ni. Pote, co se tato skutecnost rozkrikla, sahlo i Svycarsko po prisnych opatrenich a s marihuanou nadobro skoncovalo. To jste nevedeli, ze? Ale spousta bohatych turistu-zhulencu (napr z USA)bohuzel ano... Secteno, podtrzeno. Ja osobne jsem na marihuanu velmi nastvany, je to TVRDA droga, a to hlavne z toho duvodu, ze na ni myslite, vzpominate na ty fajn casy atd... Perlicka na zaver. Kolik casu potrebujete, abyste se zhulili? Max 5 min. Marihuana vas proste zhuli (uplne),anebo vubec (nulovy efekt). Tzn., ze bud jste opravdu mimo, anebo vubec - stejne jako u perniku,extaze, koksu atd. Kdezto alkohol - po prvnim pivu jeste mluvite normalne, po druhem uz veseleji, po tretim se rehtate a po ctvrtem se pozvracite. To znamena - mate 4 schody, po kterych musite vystoupat, abyste byli mimo. U marihuany ne, zde jste v podstate uz po prvim vetsim sluku mimo. I kdyz napr. jen na 10 min, ale proste mimo. Cim vice z te cigarety vykourite ovlivnuje pouze to JAK DLOUHO BUDETE MIMO...Alkohol je sice take svinstvo, ale nema tak rychly nastup a muzete ho preci jen castecne kontrolovat, kdezto DROGY ne... Podstata narkomanie i alkoholismu spociva v tom, ze byt mimo (opily, sjety, vyhuleny, nakoksovany, nadratovany-ale my si dobre rozumime,nerikejte ze ne...) cloveku pripada+pomaha (to je ta blba kombinace) proste lepsi, nez stereotyp reality. Jasne, vsak to zcasti pravda. Ale lepe nez na koksu je jaksi lepsi ujet si pouze na tom sexu a rock´n rollu... Hezky vecer vsem!P.
19. 01. 2009 | 19:03

petragelbart napsal(a):

To Pepa:
Dekuji za prispevek, coby clovek neznaly drog v osobni rovine se ho urcite pokusim zaradit do svych zkusenosi. Nasledujici se vsak neopira o zadne statistiky a na zaklade mnohych zkusenosti s "kuraky" s timto vyrokem musim vehementne nesouhlasit:

"paklize marihuanu maji, kouri ji az do te doby, dokud jim nedojde.V 99% pripadu tedy denne"

Tech 99% by uz muselo pochazet z podstatne uzsi kategorie nez vsichni uzivatele travy.

(Pro jistotu poznamka pro vsechny starostlive rodice: to neznamena, ze bych se nebala, ze moje dite zacne denne kourit travu. Prave proto chci aby ode me deti dostavaly realne informace -- aby mi i v tomto pripade mohly duverovat, kdyz jim reknu, ze denne hulit NENI v poradku.)
19. 01. 2009 | 20:33

Lena napsal(a):

Pepo,

konečně zas jeden rozumný příspěvek. Děkuji za něj. Totéž moje zkušenost se spolubydlícími. Přesně tak to s nimi bylo. Včetně toho, že dokud byla m., tak jí hulili do té doby, než odpadli nebo šli spát, a druhý den znova a tak stále dokola. Keříky se sami pěstovali, takže v době sklizně to v bytě bylo jak v opiovém doupěti. Smrad ze 3. patra až do přízemí.
19. 01. 2009 | 22:03

zmateni pojmu // zbytecny clanek napsal(a):

Boze, co se to studuje - etnomuziko - kdo na to dava penize? Proc se tomu proboha rika veda? A kdyz nekdo vazne rika ze 'studuje' 'vedu' etnomuziko, tak opravdu nebude moc kompetentni na racionalni rozlousknuti nejakeho realneho problemu. A tento ZBYTECNY clanek to VELMI prokazuje.
20. 01. 2009 | 02:30

Glosator napsal(a):

V Singapuru to vymysleli. Pašeráky narkotik věší.
20. 01. 2009 | 11:17

Pepa napsal(a):

To Petra Gelbart:

Vazena pani Gelbart.Se smutnym srdcem musim bohuzel trvat na svem vyroku ,,paklize maji, huli denne,,. Mavneme nyni rukou nad temi kuraky, jez si jednou za pul roku potahnou po par pivech na mejdanu s kolegy z jointa.Vezmeme v potaz ty opravdove uzivatele.Troufam si tvrdit,odpustte mi prosim mou troufalost, ze skupina Vasich znamych, jez by snad konkretnejsi zkusenost s marihuanou miti mohla, je jeste porad z te skupiny lidi,jez mezi skutecne uzivatel marihuany pocitat nelze. Pani Gelbart, rad bych Vam polozil touto cestou otazku. Co Vas vlastne dovedlo k napsani tohoto clanku? Vite, ja z toho mam takovy (Vas) romanticky pocit. Takmer ten samy, jako jsem mel ja, kdyz jsem si marihuanu poprve opravdu vyzkousel a mel jakousi nutkavou potrebu vykricet celemu svetu, ze jsem se po trave nezblaznil, jsem schopen chodit do prace, platim dane a chovam se slusne... Ale ouha, veci se az po letech ukazaly v jinem svetle... Velice si vazim Vasi chuti psat, blogovat a vyjadrovat svoje nazory. Osobne to povazuji za velice pozitivni vlastnost, jez Vam umoznuje vyslechnout si i nazory jinych lidi, coz v dnesni dobe neni rozhodne samozrejmost. Preji Vam suche a velmi rovne cesty.
20. 01. 2009 | 11:18

Yfča napsal(a):

Informace pro všechny obhájce marihuany jako neškodné drogy. Už jsem to zde na jiném blogu psala, ale myslím, že je důležité neustále zdůrazňovat: u některých jedinců způsobí kouření marihuany schizofrenii. Dotyčný není závislý, nemusí jí kouřit mnoho, ani dlouho. Přesto se to stane. To, jestli jste takto disponovaný jedinec zjistíte až když už je pozdě a schizofrenie je nastartovaná. Tak jako někdo dostane kopřivku po ovoci, dostane jiný schizofrenii po marihuaně, ale oba to před tím netuší. Rozdíl je jen v tom, že schizofrenie se člověk nezbaví do konce života. Jako matka takto postiženého syna považuji marihuanu za tvrdou drogu.
20. 01. 2009 | 14:21

petragelbart napsal(a):

To: Yfca, dekuji za prispevek. Riziko spusteni schizofrenie v dusledku uzivani konopi mi je znamo. V dalsim clanku uvedu argument, proc jsou bud temer vsechny drogy tvrde - tzn. rizikove latky VCETNE alkoholu, nebo je opravdu treba rozlisovat na mekke (opakuji: nerikam neskodne!) a tvrde.

Naprosto chapu, ze jako matka syna se schizofrenii povazujete marihuanu za tvrdou drogu. Ackoliv to je statisticky pomerne male riziko, se stejnou zkusenosti bych nejspis rikala to same. Doufam vsak ze take chapete, ze matky deti postizenych mj. Fetalnim alkoholovym syndromem maji jeste padnejsi duvod k tomu, aby povazovaly alkohol za VELMI tvrdou, nemilosrdnou drogu (a nezalezi na tom, zda to je matka, ktera postizeni ditete "vedome" zavinila, ci ne).
20. 01. 2009 | 15:12

Hajný napsal(a):

Paní Petro!
Takto přece otázka nestojí.Správně by bylo:"Drogy představují nebezpečí pro dospívající." A je jedno jaké drogy,od tabáku po heroin!

Takto bychom mohli napsat: Dopravní policie představuje nebezpečí pro řidiče!

Institut justice představuje nebezpečí pro naplňování svobody jednotlivce.
20. 01. 2009 | 17:22

Jana z Prahy napsal(a):

Celkem s Vami souhlasim, kdyby mela trava patrit do stejne kategorie jako heroin, to bychom tam museli zaradit i alkohol a nikotin. Trava je svinstvo, ale vedle takovych jako je pernik a heroin nepatri.

Mimochodem, videla jste film "Requiem za sen"? Myslim, ze to by byl velmi kvalitni preventivni snimek - vysilat ho pubertakum, snad by jim to i neco dalo.
20. 01. 2009 | 17:52

CoToVidíOkoMoje napsal(a):

To petragelbart:

Myslím, že chápu, co jste chtěla vyjádřit. Jenom bych Vás rád doplnil. Já jsem chemik a vím, že např. není konopí, jako konopí. Moc záleží na tom, jestli je to směs, která obsahuje pouze květy nebo i listy (popř. jejich kombinace). Tím je dán obsah psychoaktivních účinných látek, zejména THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol). A záleží na tom opravdu hodně, protože se obsah může pohybovat v rozmezí od 0,01% do 20%. Když někdo použije jenom listy, kde je obsah THC nejnižší, tak je asi někde jinde než ten, kdo použije převážně květy (tam je THC nejvíce). A z toho plyne jádro sporu! Rozlišujme případ, kdy si diabetik vaří výluh z listů na obklady, kterým si léčí pahýl po amputaci prstu. A také rozlišujme případ, kdy někdo záměrně připraví a prodává extrakt s vysokým obsahem THC.

Ten první jmenovaný případ je o neškodném léčivu, které nelze nijak významně zneužít (dosažené výsledky jsou často velmi pozoruhodné). Ten druhý případ už zneužitelný za určitých okolností je. Hlavně v kombinaci s jinými léky, které mají sedativní účinky (takže záleží na způsobu užívání).

Prosím diskutující: rozlišujte! Jinak každý mluvíte o něčem jiném a nikdy se nedomluvíte. Forma drogy může zásadně ovlivnit její společenskou nebezpečnost!
20. 01. 2009 | 20:24

CoToVidíOkoMoje napsal(a):

To petragelbart:

Promiňte, ještě jsem zapoměl vysvětlit rozdíl mezi marihuanou a hašišem (někteří diskutující si to občas pletou):

Marihuana jsou sušené a hrubě rozdrcené listy a kousky lodyh rostliny Cannabis (konopí), které se míchají s okvětními lístky.

Hašiš je pryskyřice produkovaná rostlinami Cannabis, jež se získává ze samičích květů (t.j. koncentrovaná pryskyřice).

Hašiš je v přibližně šestkrát účinnější než marihuana (to je dáno tím, že je to koncentrát pryskyřice). Možná proto si to lidé pletou (obojí se dá izolovat z konopí).

To je vše - mějte se hezky
20. 01. 2009 | 20:46

petragelbart napsal(a):

Mate pravdu, urcite jsem mela rozlisit minimalne marihuanu a hasis. (Alkohol take neni jen pivo a vino, ze ano :-) V dalsim clanku se o tom zminim. Ja mela na mysli takovou tu "obycejnou travu." Dekuji za prispevky.
20. 01. 2009 | 21:04

marwin napsal(a):

Paní Markéto - nikdo z přítomných tu ale netvrdí, že děti mají co brát drogy! děti nemají co chlastat, kouřit ani hulit trávu!
Nicméně je prokázáno, že společenská nebezpečnost a tam se zahrnuje sekundární kriminální činnost spojená s obstaráváním drogy, vznik fyzické a psychické závislosti a její síla, chování jedinců po intoxikaci, doba intoxikace atd. řadí marihuanu mezi drogy s tzv. přijatelnou mírou rizika. Naše společnost není zralá na legalizaci. Bylo by ale dobré marihuanu dekriminalizovat. Tj. nestíhat lidi za 3 kytky, ale jít po dealerech tvrdých drog. Tráva pak ztratí punc zakázaného ovoce a stane se komoditou která není dostatečně lukrativní pro dealování (když každý bude moct mít kytku doma, tak proč by ji kupoval). Toto by mi přišlo jako nehysterické a logické jednání. Zásadní omyl zakořeněný v některých lidech je, že používání drog lze vymýtit, nebo zakázat. Je to absolutní nesmysl. Tyhle látky provází lidstvo co je lidstvem a přílišná restrikce jen podporuje organizovaný zločin a dělá z velké skupiny pracujících lidí asociální živly a kriminálníky. Zbytečně!
21. 01. 2009 | 14:32

Jakub napsal(a):

Konečně výstižný pohled na věc.
21. 01. 2009 | 15:09

PALIČ napsal(a):

Jsem pravidelný kuřák marihuany!
Studuju 6.rokem architekturu na ČVUT. Věřte, je nás tam dost. Kouřím pravidelně trávu od svých 16 let... tzn bezmála 10 let!

Rád bych nastínil několik svých postřehů...

1. děti by sice neměli do 18ti let kouřit ani pít, avšak já si takovéto dospívání nedovedu představit... Prostě na lyžařský výcvik nebo oslavu narozenin chlast a dnes i tráva patří... Kdo z Vás rodičů na střední škole nepopíjel?
Zastávám názor že je mnohem horší se s alkoholem a kouřením poprvé setkat po 20tém roce. člověk není ničím omezen a nikdo mu už do duše nepromluví... Často si skutečnou povahu těchto "požitků" uvědomí až pozdě...

2. marihuana údajně náviková není... ale já osobně na sobě pozoruji častou chuť na to "se zhulit" a "zakouřit si" když není marihuana spokojím se s hnusnou chutí tabáku...
jedná se tedy podle mě o závislost psychickou i fyzickou-tu má ovšem za následek návyk na kouření...čehokoli (kdo by neznal klasické kombinace... kafe+cígo, pivo+cígo, zastávka mhd+cígo...)

3. nebezpečí marihuany pro mladistvé je z mého pohledu z 98% JEN A JEN VE ZTRÁTĚ MOTIVACE!
Pokud je dítě dostatečně motivováno... škola ho baví, koníčky, sport, stimulující zázemí v rodině tak většinou po marihuaně ani nesáhne...a pokud ano tak se jí nenechá pohltit!
Marihuana z nikoho trosku neudělá! Ale udělá z Vás primitiva když jí to dovolíte! Čemuž se dá zabránit dalšími aktivitami... Žít plný a úspěšný život s jointem v ruce chce dalekovíc duševního úsilí! Jedninec se stále musí bránit pocitu KDYŤ VO NIC NEJDE, který jde s kouřením trávy ruku v ruce.

4. Nevadí mi povolení alkoholu, nevadí mi povolení cigaret a nevadilo by mi ani povolení marihuany...
Od plnoletosti je to každého věc.
Je sice logické porovnávat alkohol s marihuanou, když se bavíme o legalizaci, avšak trochu zavádějící... jedná se o naprosto odlišné drogy...
Alkohol mi vadí kvůli vznikajícím tendencím k agresivitě, a taky kvůli kocovině :).
Marihuana má zase nevyzpytatelné možnosti zdravotních komplikací, odbourává se ztěla dalo déle a tedy dělá i větší neplechu... například vliv na genetický fond jedince může/nemusí být degradující. (nadruhou stranu Bob Marley prohulil celý život a má 12 zdravých dětí...)

5. Závěrem bych chtěl říct všem rodičům jejichž děti tuto rostlinu kouří:
Mějte strpení!
Tak jako přehlídnete sem tam nějaké to opití se na narozeninách či ližařském výcviku, tak berte i marihuanu.
Mějte se zároveň napozoru!
Důležitý je podle mě bod kdy dítě opouští své zájmy a záliby a nemá žádné nové. Škola jde doháje, sedí věčně u PC nebo se poflakuje po sídlišti... Když je k tomu všemu přítomna i marihuana... je třeba to začít řešit. Nejlépe už o něco dříve...

PS: V 6té třídě ZŠ bych naordinoval povinně film REQUIEM ZA SEN!
Ten je lepší než všechny školní programy...
21. 01. 2009 | 18:44

CoToVidíOkoMoje napsal(a):

To marwin:

Zajímavý názor!

Díky, že jste se zapojil do diskuse. Přesně tohle by se mělo vyřejnosti vysvětlovat. Ať lidi vědí, z čeho by měli mít obavu a kde naopak zbytečně hledají problém, i když tam ve skutečnosti žádný není.

Vystihl jste to fakt dobře. Klobouk dolů!
21. 01. 2009 | 19:21

CoToVidíOkoMoje napsal(a):

Omlouvám se za překlep:

ne "vyřejnosti", ale "veřejnosti"
21. 01. 2009 | 19:24

PeN napsal(a):

Nečetl jsem celou diskusi podrobně, tak doufám, že neopakuji názory některého z předdiskutérů. Pokud by pan Frydrych vedl NPC ve vztahu k marihuaně stejně, jako jeho předchůdce pan Komorous, bylo by to jedině dobře. I pan Komorous sice tvrdil, že marihuana je tvrdá droga (respektivě takto drogy nedělil, neboť mu to zákon ani neumožňoval), ale v praxi se NPC chovala velmi pragmaticky. Sledovala a potírala organizovaný zločin s marihuanou spojený - velkopěstitele, velkodealery ap., kteří většinou kšeft s marihuanou doprovázeli jinými kriminálními aktivitami. Naopak NPC nechávala být samozásobitele a běžné uživatele, kteří si někde doma nebo v zákoutí za domem vypěstovali pár kytek pro sebe nebo své kamarády... Spektakulární zásahy proti "tříkytkovým zločincům", občas ukazované v našich TV, byly snad vždy věcí okresních a krajských správ, poháněných čárkovým systémem...
21. 01. 2009 | 21:39

nemo napsal(a):

Také jsem to přečetl poměrně podrobně a množství nepravd prezentovaných jako zaručené informace je, jako v každé diskuzi na tohle téma, enormní. Troufám si tvrdit, že tématu užívání drog jsem znalý hodně. Kvalifikuje mne patnáctiletá koexistence s cigaretami, alkoholem a marihuanou, to, že jsem kromě heroinu vyzkoušel jsem snad všechno (zkuste žít rok ve Španělsku a párkrát si nešňupnout) a také asi neobvyklá různorodost prostředí ve kterém jsem se v životě pohyboval a pohybuji. Od sídliště v době kdy začínal perník, přes squatty ve Francii plné zfetovaných rastamanů (a ožralých Čechů a Poláků :-), Španělsko kde je kokain samozřejmou součástí nočního života až po dnešní "lepší" společnost podnikatelů či právnků, kde se také celkem vesele chlastá a fetuje. Viděl jsem jak laciné červené víno z plastikových kanystrů dělá z lidí naprosté trosky a bezprávná zvířátka a stejně tak potkal i takové, kteří zkusili párkrát heroin a nic moc to s nimi neudělalo. Závislost není nikdy jenom o droze, ale vždy o nešťastné kombinaci uživatele a drogy, kteří se prostě nikdy neměli potkat. V okamžiku kdy uživatel tu "svou" najde je mu už pak zpravidla jedno jestli je legální nebo ne a bude ji užívat dokud nenarazí do zdi. Je mu totiž kromě drogy jedno úplně všechno. Je pravda, že marihuana je silná droga a určitě ji nelze účinky přirovnávat ke kávě, je pravda, že marihuana může uškodit psychice (mám derealizační syndrom na kterém se tráva určitě podepsala), je pravda, že z trávy může být pěkně (ale fakt pěkně) blbě, je pravda, že dnešní marihuana je mnohem silnější než před deseti lety (kde jsou ty časy kdy jsme si za školou cpali klasické dýmky a drželi kouř co nejdéle, aby to účinkovalo :-). Na druhou stranu marihuana není návyková (ve smyslu opravdové závislosti, neberu, že na ni má dotyčný často chuť nebo to prostě patří ke stylu života viz. vysokoškolské koleje nebo squatty). Stejně tak argument o "můstku" dál je nesmyslný když vychází z představy, že drogy jsou na jakési pomylsné stupnici. Kokain není silnější tráva, kokain je prostě něco úplně jiného. Stejně tak heroin není silnější kokain, je to prostě zase něco úplně jiného. Nejlepší je samozřejmě nic nezkoušet a prožít celý život v požehnané střízlivosti, ale pokud si člověk chce zaexperimentovat se změnami vědomí (a ve věku kolem těch sedmnácti, osmnácti často chce) tak tráva je , přes všechna negativa, relativně vzato nejbezpečnější. V tomto kontextu je lhaní o tvrdé droze opravdu škodlivé z mnoha důvodů (viz. příspěvky výše). Občan má navíc právo na objektivní informace a dobře míněné lži jsou výsadou totalitních systémů. Z právního hlediska si myslím, že by měla být marihuana odlišena od tvrdých drog, protože stupeň její společenské nebezpečnosti je prostě výrazně nižší. Když ukradnete deset tisíc také to spadá do jiného odstavce než deset milionů. Z politicko-společenského hlediska si myslím, že by měla být dekriminalizována (není totéž co legalizovaná, penalizovat se dá i jinak než vězením) úplně, protože stav kdy pětina jinak legálního obyvatelstva páchá více či méně pravidelně trestnou činnost s tím, že to je sice trestné ale v zásadě se to může, vede k neúctě a nedůvěře k zákonům. Na druhou stranu rozumný přístup NPC k malopěstitelům a konzumentům marihuany je lepší než kdyby se drželi striktně litery zákona a sváželi "hadráky" o víkendech z klubů a diskoték na služebny ve dvoupatrových autobusech.
22. 01. 2009 | 02:44

m. napsal(a):

Uff. Půl páté! :)

Takováto drogová filosofie je mým koníčkem už nějakou dobu. Snažím se udělat si co nejobjektivnější názor a tedy děkuji všem, kteří svým komentářem přispěli.

Musím souhlasit s tím, že většina lidí zde má přinejmenším "svůj kousek pravdy". Ačkoliv tu bylo i pár málo názorů, které jsou (dle mě) úplně mimo mísu.

Chápu, že objektivita názorů některých je znásilněna faktem, že zažili, že někdo s pomocí trávy dopadl špatně.

Některé úhly pohledu ale málokdo vnímá. Zaujal mě třeba příspěvek PALIČe, souhlasím s ním na 100% v tom, že jediné závažné riziko marihuany je ve ztrátě motivace.

Taky se mi moc líbila myšlenka s "kulturní připraveností" naší země na legalizaci.

Zkusme se na to podívat z pohledu společnosti neboli státu - tráva je (mimo jiné) prostředek, přes který se může z potenciálně perspektivního člověka (experta, inženýra, programátora) stát docela průměrný worker. Kdyby trávu kouřil celý národ tak, jak pije alkohol, moc kritiky-schopné inteligence by tu asi nezůstalo. Však se podívejte, jaký je u nás poměr alkoholických abstinentů.

Na druhou stranu je třeba respektovat, že bez drog (obecně) by nikdy nevznikla většina umění (Pink Floyd, Eric Clapton, ...).

A ještě - když už jsme u toho "házení do jednoho pytle" - osobně bych určitě neházel do jednoho pytle třeba kokain s pervitinem. Ale to jen tak naokraj.

A kdybyste se náhodou dočetli až sem, dám vám odkaz na moc zajímavé čtení - doporučuju dočíst do konce: http://lsd.cz/lsd/lsd1.html
22. 01. 2009 | 04:46

Andrea napsal(a):

Od mariuhany je blíže k tvrdým drogám, od cigarety k alkoholu, a přesto znám více alkoholiků nekuřáků. S tímto problémem se nedělá vůbec nic. Alkoholici jsou v každé druhé domáctnosti a asi proto to nikomu nevadí. Zatímco strašák drog ..... Na alkoholiky jsme zvyklí, vídáme je denně, jen to někteří z nás nepoznají, měla jsem jednoho doma,tudíž poznám i ,,tichého,, alkohololika jen od pohledu. Tim tichým nemyslím, že by doma nemluvil, oni doma terorizují všechny. Pomaloučku, polehoučku, nikde to není vidět, jenom se jim změní mimika a vzápětí to začne .... Podotýkám, že nejsem abstinent, kouřím a drogy jsem nikdy nebrala. I přesto nechápu ten humbuk kolem ,,trávy,, Neznám žádného ,,zhulence,, který by terorizoval svoji rodinu!!! Jestli nějakého znáte, dejte vědět. A kolik znáte alkáčů a alkáček????? Odpovězte si všichni popravdě, kolik lidí si začne pocucávat doma ..... a za hodinku pobytu doma nebo v restauraci se jim změní ,,ánfas,, padne brada, nastoupí pesimismus, a začnou blekotat. Pro toho, kdo toto nezažil, nejhorší je to u rodičů, tak chápu, že je proti ,,travě,, kdo zažil je proti ALKOHOLU!!!!!!!!
22. 01. 2009 | 09:50

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Oboje extrémy (naprostá tabuizace a kriminalizace KONTRA naprostá blahosklonnost...).

Přechod od marihuany k tvrdým drogám rozhodně není pravidlem. Stejně jako pár „zkoušek“ této látky...

Ovšem obhájci marihuany cíleně opomíjejí skutečnost, že dlouhodobé používání této látky způsobuje daleko citelnější dopady nikoliv po stránce fyzické, nýbrž PSYCHICKÉ.
A zde opravdu končí veškerá legrace. Znám jednoho člověka z osobní zkušenosti : jednak dlouhodobé užívání změnilo K HORŠÍMU jeho osobnost, duševní vyrovnanost a charakter, jednak byly občasné pokusy (asi dva…) o zanechání „hulení“ naprosto marné. Psychická závislost byla takřka nepřekonatelná (jelikož dobrá nálada, či alespoň pohoda, byla již „naprogramovaná“ na jointa).

Samozřejmě existují INDIVIDUÁLNÍ rozdíly : A to naprosto diametrálně odlišné dopady podle délky a intenzity užívání (od ŽÁDNÝCH příznaků až k DEPRESI…), osobní zodpovědnost a vyhodnocení rizik, informovanost, apod.

Nebezpečí marihuany spočívá v její plíživosti. Pár jointů zkrátka nezpůsobí zhola nic, avšak pravidelné „hulení“ po dobu cca od více, než roku až několik let již exponenciálně navyšuje dopady v rovině psychické.

Bránit marihuanu démonizací alkoholu a naopak je pochopitelně naprosto zcestné. Démonizovat obojí přehnaně stručnou a triviální formou („je to zlo, nic více k tomu neřeknu“…) rovněž.
Důležité je rozšiřovat MAXIMUM informací mezi mládeží - o široké škále účinků i (!) osudech těch, kteří neodhadli, přehnali, podcenili, chybovali, ztroskotali.
Což se (bohužel) stále neděje v míře dostatečné.
22. 01. 2009 | 12:40

Martin Bernhauer napsal(a):

Já kouřím marihuanu od 15ti let. Zkusil jsem pervitin, extázi, lysohlávky, kokain, hašiš, alkohol cigarety. Dnes je mi 23 let a už kouřím jenom trávu. Ještě bych chtěl podotknout že docela úspěšně už dva roky podnikám a vystudoval jsem školu. To jenom, aby mě tady nikdo nenapadal jak sem dopadl...Jenom tím chci říct kolik z Vás se může zapojit do této diskuze včetně Vás paní autorko, když jste to nikdy nezkusili??? Všechni tady víte všechno, ale nikdo pořádně nic. To samé ty naši česští eperti kteří si myslí že všem pomůžou když budou kecat a dělat machry. JESTLI SE CHCETE O PROBLEMATICE DROG NĚCO DOZVĚDĚT ZEPTEJTE SE NĚKOHO KDO TO ZAŽIL!! JINAK NEMŮŽETE MLUVIT PRAVDIVĚ A OBJEKTIVNĚ
22. 01. 2009 | 14:11

Martin Bernhauer napsal(a):

no chtěl jsem napsat přesně to co nemo....To je naprosta pravda
22. 01. 2009 | 14:15

lmxnmc napsal(a):

A nehledě na to že kdyby všeci hulili tak není na světě žádné násilí!!
22. 01. 2009 | 14:18

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Martin Benhauer – Po vaší reakci si dovoluji drobné upřesnění mé předchozí repliky.

Vůbec jsem nepsal o tom, že by kvůli marihuaně musel někdo dopadnout jako bezdomovec (viz vaše obhajoba vystudovanou školou - btw jakou, v 23 letech? ;)... a podnikáním). Psal jsem o rovině psychické.

Vím o čem píši - z vlastní zkušenosti i ze zkušenosti s lidmi v mém okolí.

Vaše reakce nijak neosvětluje problematiku - "kouřit 10 let" může také znamenat jednoho "práska" měsíčně... což odpovídá jedné kocovině za stejnou dobu. Dopad srovnatelný, tedy minimální.
Na místě je tak podstatnější formulace; pramenící z otázky JAK ČASTO kouříte?

P.S. : Pokud jste některé z ostatních vámi vyjmenovaných látek zkusil jenom jednou, je to dobrá zpráva. ;))

...
22. 01. 2009 | 20:16

DDD napsal(a):

Zkuste myslet sami, spoluobčané. Jen pár námětů k zamyšlení.
- dnes hororizovaná extáze byla v době svého vzniku volně prodejným léčivem (GB) na povzbuzení
- není to tak dlouho co opiová tinktura byl běžný lék na spaní
- kokain měl za první republiky ve výbavě každý zubař, nemyslím že každý pacient co si šňupnul (vlastně líznul) se rázem stal závislákem
- kriminalizovat marihuanu v zemi kde v populaci v maldším a produktivním věku 30% pravidelně hulí a mezi středoškoláky ji zkusila drtivá většina je trochu mimo mísu
- všem diskutérům co nemají osobní zkušenost doporučuji nechat si sehnat od kteréhokoliv teenagera jednoho jointa a v Tescu si koupit nějakou 40% lihovinu ve stejné ceně. Pak si udělejte pokus, jeden večer vyhulte jointa, druhý večer si dejte na posezení tu flašku. Třetí večer (starší ročníky spíš čtvrtý) si v klidu sedněte a zapřemýšlejte o nebezpečnosti THC :).
- rozhodně si nemyslím, že je dobré nebo potřebné hulit nebo chlastat či jinak fetovat a nikoho k tomu nenabádám, ale na druhou stranu je to každého věc. Tak jako většina návštěvníků baru nejsou alkoholici, tak většina těch, co si občas dají marihuanu, nejsou feťáci. Rekreační nebo náboženské užívání drog je staré jako lidstvo samo.
Poznámka na konec, pro ty co si udělali pokus a už jim není zle, opravdu si po své zkušenosti s lahví zodpovědně myslíte, že je třeba zařadit alkohol mezi tvrdé drogy a zakázat ho, prosazovat to všemi dostupnými prostředky? Pokud ano, rozhodně kontaktujte svého poslance, případně i svého psychiatra :).
Jo a víte že halucinogeny nejsou návykové (fyzický návyk samozřejmě myslím, že někomu něco chutná je druhá věc)? Tak až budete chtít vidět poctivého politika, zapřemýšlejte o experimentu...
23. 01. 2009 | 12:07

petr napsal(a):

no ale čekat mlsně až se syn vrátí ze školy a prošacovat mu kapsy jestli mu nezbylo taky nebude asi ono v životě
23. 01. 2009 | 12:08

aka napsal(a):

PRO DDT
člověk zdravý se nemá chovat nikdy pod vlivem chemikálii,protože se tak už asi narodil a pak potká hloupého co ho to naučí když je sám hloupý
- extaze - a těch hororu co zpusobuje v mozku je myslíte málo?
- u zubaře každá pomoc dobrá!
max ale32 tripu
-mimo je nechat to být
23. 01. 2009 | 12:18

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Kriminalizovat marihuanu je nesmysl.

Tvrdit, že se o nic nejedná a je to každého věc – rovněž nesmysl.
Krom umělého a krátkodobého povzbuzení, či občasného „good tripu“ je přínos návykových látek, nebo „měkkých drog“ nijaký. Možná pomůže leda tak nevyléčitelně nemocným, v případě marihuany (zahnat větší zlo menším pro klidnější dožití svých dnů...). V případě střídmé (!) konzumace alkoholu lze mluvit např. přínosu vitaminů v pivu a taninů v červeném víně…

Avšak to ještě neplatí vždy, pokud zafunguje „měkká droga“ (alkohol, marihuana, apod.) jako katalyzátor špatné nálady… výsledek je tedy špatný po všech stránkách (fyzické psychické, ekonomické – částka zaplacena k zápornému „užitku“).

Není tedy na místě řešit, co je „každého věc“ a stavět proti sobě alkohol a marihuanu (tak, jako staví závislí kuřáci proti sobě své cigarety a automobilový provoz…).
„Každého věc“ by mělo být v těchto otázkách PŘEDEVŠÍM PRÁVO NA INFORMACI, a to, pokud možno, od mladšího školního věku.

Samozřejmě že komu marjánka šmakuje, bude do roztrhání těla bojovat proti dekriminalizaci… a nečinit nic jiného. Tak už to chodí se všemi, kteří se neobejdou bez určitých náhražek. Někdo má rád holky; druhý vdolky.

...
23. 01. 2009 | 13:43

Piži napsal(a):

V tom případě je přínos stejný jako přínos hudby, filmů, obrazů, kultury obecně.
23. 01. 2009 | 15:06

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Piži - ???

...No to jste srovnal takříkajíc "koše s opálkami". Pro takovou repliku musí mít člověk potřebný intelekt. ;D
23. 01. 2009 | 17:29

tomash napsal(a):

díky za nový pohled kauzalitou se lhaním představitelů establismentu,jejich krátkozrakost je opravdu nedozírná:-) přeji pevné nervy při čtení komentářů
23. 01. 2009 | 21:17

Vanek napsal(a):

Legalni droga ALKOHOL.
------------------------
Všechny záchytky ve velkých městech byly naplněny obdivuhodnou rychlostí, sanitky a požárníci nestačili zasahovat. Sledoval jsem s hrůzou, jak záchranáři na Václavském náměstí museli košťaty odstraňovat z cesty sanitky střepy z láhví, jen aby vůz bez rozříznutých pneumatik mohl dojet ke zraněnému opilci. Záběry na neskutečně znečištěné ulice tuto ukázku degenerace lidské civilizace jen podtrhovaly.

http://czech-bohemia.blogsp...
24. 01. 2009 | 11:05

Vanek napsal(a):

Ovšem obhájci marihuany cíleně opomíjejí skutečnost, že dlouhodobé používání této látky způsobuje daleko citelnější dopady nikoliv po stránce fyzické, nýbrž PSYCHICKÉ.
A zde opravdu končí veškerá legrace.
--------------------
Delate si legraci? Nechlastam 25 let. Hulim. Zadne jine drogy jsem nikdy nezkusil. Jsem proti tvrdym drogam a vsem dealerum. V rijnu me bude 66 a jsem presvedcen ze funguji normalne :-)

Racte se presvedcit:
http://smg.photobucket.com/...

PS: Drogy nepropaguji, jen chci po me letite zkusenosti vyvratit nesmysly ruznych "profesionalnich" znalcu o skodlivosti marihuany. Jestize nekdo huli a zaroven chlasta, to uz je jina vec.
24. 01. 2009 | 11:17

PetrS napsal(a):

Pane Vaňku, ta logika trochu pokulhává. To, že kouření způsobuje rakovinu plic dnes už také nikdo nezpochybňuje poukazem na to, že existují lidé, kteří kouřili celý život a rakovinu nedostali.
24. 01. 2009 | 12:04

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Vanek - já znám pro změnu jiné příklady z praxe. ;)

Marihuana není meduňkový čaj.

Alkoholik, kuřák, marihuanový hulič i feťák mají jedno společné - do krve "vysvětlují" či omlouvají svoji závislost (návyk); zaklínají se škodlivostí "konkurenčních drog", atd.

Tvrdíte : "Drogy nepropaguji, jen chci po me letite zkusenosti vyvratit nesmysly ruznych "profesionalnich" znalcu o skodlivosti marihuany"
V těch nesmyslech se shodneme.
Ve zlehčování této látky nikoli.
Zkrátka a dobře - 1) Je rozdíl, jestli si někdo zapálí jednou ročně, jednou za měsíc, za týden, či každý den.
2) S kombinací JAK DLOUHO a INDIVDUÁLNÍMI ROZDÍLY máme celou škálu možných výsledků.
Po spolknutí kapsle s cyankále nepřežije prakticky nikdo z rodu homo sapiens sapiens.
To je PŘEDEM DANÁ jistota, kterou marihuana pochopitelně postrádá.

Zkuste konečně pochopit, že se někteří lidé snaží být co nejobjektivnější. Zavírat, natož snad kastrovat či upalovat uživatele marihuany by mě ani ve snu nenapadlo.

Tvrdit, že dlouhodobé užívání má vždy a za všech okolností škodlivé účinky a NA KAŽDÉHO.. rovněž ne.

Ale nesnažte se podsouvat, že marihuana je něco jako mátový čaj. Konkrétně v jednom případě vím o nepříjemném dopadu dlouhodobého užívání této drogy na jednoho jedince – dopadu nikoliv takovém, že by vraždil, skončil jako bezdomovec, apod. Avšak po charakterové stránce na tom byl před pravidelným vstřebáváním THC opravdu lépe a psychicky vyrovnán.

Jestli jste se chtěl pohádat s tmářem, klepete na špatné dveře. Přeji příjemné hulení (a pokud možno nenabízet vnoučatům, dokud nebudou plnoletá… a OBJEKTIVNĚ poučená ;).)
24. 01. 2009 | 12:10

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Petr S - Zvádl jste to stručněji, avšak o to lépe. ;)

Ano, kouřit pravidelně 25 let marihuanu a nedostat rakovinu... to je prakticky zázrak. Který se může stát (ale většinou nemusí).
24. 01. 2009 | 12:12

bigjirka napsal(a):

Každopádně mládež není ohrožována policií, ale drogami.
24. 01. 2009 | 23:59

Dočasný Thomas napsal(a):

Přirovnávat marihuanu k méně nebezpečným drogám, uvádět v souvislosti s drogami přirovnání k nebezpečí automobilů a uvádět jako příklad autobus a motorku je stejně dementní jako tvrdit že smrt zastřelením je lepší než smrt otrávením. Vždy je to smrt, tak proč to rozlišovat.
Uvádět jako příklad americké školství bych taky neviděl jako nejšťastnější. Jejich kvalita, až na pár vybraných vysokých škol hovoří za vše.
Závěrem doporučuji vyjadřovat se relevantněji s lepšími a jednoznačnějšími přirovnáními v oblastech, které Vám více vyhovují.
25. 01. 2009 | 10:03

Jan Chán napsal(a):

Marihuana jako droga? Jistě, ale je otázka jaká. Především všechno, co je proti předchozím letitým způsobům života bez tohoto novodobého "svinstva", je anomálie současného způsobu života. Ale tak jak se mění vše kolem nás ve srovnání s nedávnou minulostí a to rychlostí přímo nevídanou, mění se i životní styl. Otázkou je, zda je to pro budoucnost lepší, či nikoliv. Myslím, že ne. Protože návyk, tím více špatný, je přece jenom návyk, který se jen těžko odbourává. Viz kouření a alkohol. Byl zmíněn boj proti drogám versus alkohol. Já přidám ještě kouření. Boj s drogami je sice rádoby usilovný, nic méně naděje na vítězství minimální. Je to jako s alkoholem a cigaretami jen s tím rozdílem, že v obchodě s drogami těží jen několik jedinců, zatím co byznys s lakoholem a cigaretami je oficiální průmyslová výroba, z níž má stát, kdekoliv na světě, ohromné zisky. Proto i boj s těmito drogami (alkohol, cigarety) je jen na oko, byt následky z jeho užívání jsou stejné, zabíjí i ty, kteří alkoholu neholdují (autonehody), či nekuřáky, kteří jsou v kuřáckém prostředí. Kdyby byl celosvětový a jednotný zájem na likvidaci těchto drog (alkoholu a cigaret), mnoho fabrik by se zavřelo, tisíce lidí by bylo bez praáce a co halvně, stát by zvýšil svůj deficit na straně příjmu. A o to nemá nikdo zájem. Takže celá propaganda kolem drog, ať jsou to drogy takové či onaké, alkohol čicigarety, je to jenom tolik, aby se neřeklo, že se proti tomu nicu nedělá.Výsledek je stejný, jako všude, kde se jedná o byznys.
25. 01. 2009 | 12:12

Tamara napsal(a):

Shrnu-li Váš článek - jestliže ředitel protidrogové centrály říká, že drogy jsou nebezpečné, je nebezpečný, protže má říkat, že je nebezpečný i alkohol. Držte se raději etnohudby.
25. 01. 2009 | 12:20

Higgs napsal(a):

paanecku to je komentaru.. v pulce sem jejich cteni vzdal.. Ale k veci.
Obcas si dam brko, driv treba parkrat za mesic, dneska parkrat za rok. Neni atmosfera.. O tom to je. Kdo to nezna, nemel by vynaset "zasvecene" soudy.

Tvrdy drogy jsou svinstvo a vsichni to vi.
Alkohol je svinstvo, ale nemluvi se o tom. Ale na travu je milion "odborniku".
Trava muze byt cesta k horsim vecem ale jak nekdo psal, zalezi na cloveku. Ja bych dodal - a zalezi na vyzralosti a okoli. Co se me tyce, obcas si zahulim, proste "do pohody", ale tim to konci.
15-ti lete decka co huli travu z frajeriny bych fackoval, houby vi.
Nez zacne nekdo tvrdit ze delam machra - nedelam. Jen si myslim ze po letech stridme konzumace a hlavne spolecnosti lidi kteri o tom neco vi uz nejsem zelenac a mam promysleny nazor.

Jsem pro castecnou legalizaci, ale hlavne pro to, aby se vic informovalo - a ne jen strasilo. A hlavne si myslim, ze mame mnohem vetsi problem s chlastem nez s travou, takze to je prvni co by se melo resit..
25. 01. 2009 | 19:08

miroslav napsal(a):

Dobrý večer můžu Vás jako sám vydélávajcí student odkázat na...
http://www.stream.cz/video/...

konzumuji !!!tvRdé dOgyyyy!!!
26. 01. 2009 | 02:43

DDD napsal(a):

Milí moralisté, jste fakt zábavní.. vážně si tu někdo myslí, že ať už mládež, nebo kdokoliv jiný, mají nedostatek informací :)? A vážně si tu někdo myslí, že represí zvrátíte tisíciletý trend a všichni přestanou hulit, chlastat atd :)? To je zhruba stejně naivní jako budování komunismu, dost mě mrazí, kolik takových spravedlivých tu zjevně pobíhá. Btw vzhledem ke chatrnému zdraví nemohu ani chlastat ani drogovat, takže obvinění že jsem "jeden z nich" je zcela liché. Jsem ovšem přesvědčen, že v případě dospělého člověka je jen a jen jeho věc, jestli se chce rekreačně opít, zhulit nebo cokoliv jiného a jen a jen jeho riziko, že by si mohl vypěstovat návyk (asi jako když leze Bém po horách, taky může spadnout ale proto jeětě není třeba zakázat prodej cepínů).
26. 01. 2009 | 03:30

Piži napsal(a):

Rericho, napsal jste: Krom umělého a krátkodobého povzbuzení, či občasného „good tripu“ je přínos návykových látek, nebo „měkkých drog“ nijaký.

Neplatí to pro kulturu obecně?
26. 01. 2009 | 07:02

Piži napsal(a):

Zalezi na okolnostech uzivani. Latka sama o sobe nic nedela. Zalezi na tom kdy, jak casto, kolik, v jakem prostredi...

Spatnym kdy, kde, proc si muzete uskodit cimkoliv. Sezenim, lezenim, jidlem, sportem, chuzi...
26. 01. 2009 | 07:06

Piži napsal(a):

Jan Chán - No hlavně ono drogy vymytit nelze. Bez ohledu na to zda se státu do toho chce, nebo ne. Musel byste prostě vyhladit lidi. Je to jako snaha o válku s lakotou, nebo láskou. Tyhle věci tady prostě budou tak dlouho, jak dlouho tady budou lidi. Jsou lidem vlastní.
26. 01. 2009 | 07:08

Piži napsal(a):

bigjirka - Pokud vám připadá ok formulace mládež je ohrožována drogami, pak jsou styejně dobré i výroky:

Mládež je ohrožována zbraněmi.
Mládež je ohrožována chemikáliemi.
Mládež je ohrožována automobily.
Mládež je ohrožována řekami.
Mládež je ohrožována výškami...
26. 01. 2009 | 07:10

Piži napsal(a):

Řeřicho: Ano, kouřit pravidelně 25 let marihuanu a nedostat rakovinu... to je prakticky zázrak. Který se může stát (ale většinou nemusí).

Žít a nedostat rakovinu je prakticky zázrak. Zhoubné novotvary jsou po nemocech oběhové soustavy druhopu nejčastější příčinou úmrtí v ČR.

No každopádně, v přístupu státu nejde o kouření. Marihuana se nesmí ani pěstovat, nebo jíst. Kdyby šlo o škodlivost jejího kouření, bylo by zakázáno kouření.
26. 01. 2009 | 07:15

Robert napsal(a):

Ahoj Petra,
viem čo si chcela povedať. Každu drogu považuješ za nebezpečnu, no aj tie nebezpečné môžeme rozdeliť na viac nebezpečne s čím uplne suhlasím. Marihuana podľa mojich osobných skusenosti je 80 % vstupnou branou k tým nebezpečnejším alebo najnebezpečnejším. Myslím, že to si chcela napísať vo svojom članku. A rozprávať alebo ti vyčítať, že si to neskusila a nevieš o čom rozprávaš je fakt úbohe. To by sme tu potom mohli o tom rozprávať iba vtedy, keď budeme všetci zhulení či zdrogovaní? Mne sa naopak pačí tvoj postup i kvôli tomu, že rozumný človek sa vie poučiť z chýb druhých. A to práve robíš.

Likerav tuke o vasta, sal miro rat.
26. 01. 2009 | 09:39

Piži napsal(a):

Ona ta vstupni brana je do znacne miry dusledkem spolecenske situace kolem dane drogy, spise, nez dusledkem nejakych vlastnosti primo te latky.

Mimochodem, kazdy kdo je na Heroinu zacinal chlebem, vodou, vzduchem a temer vsichni alkoholem.
26. 01. 2009 | 10:01

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Piži - cituji Vás "Rericho, napsal jste: Krom umělého a krátkodobého povzbuzení, či občasného „good tripu“ je přínos návykových látek, nebo „měkkých drog“ nijaký.

Neplatí to pro kulturu obecně?"
Pokud si „obecně“ či jakkoli jinak představujete pojem kultura výše zmíněnou statí (!) a srovnáváte její roli s drogami, raději vás na této domněnce již ponechám, jelikož z ní celkem vypovídajícím způsobem vyplývá mnohé (a nezvratitelné). Mám takový neblahý dojem, že jste v dlouhodobé konzumaci nezůstal jen u té marihuany… ;)

K vaší druhé geniální analýze : asi jste se ještě na ZŠ nesetkal s pojmem rakovinotvorné látky; nebo jste spíše v lavici nedával pozor.
Logika mnohých kuřáků (legálních narkomanů) je následující : Když jsou rakovinotvorné emise automobilů a továren, jistě bude pro nás (a naše nejbližší okolí…) přínosné, když si k tomu ještě jako bonus zapálíme.
Zde je rovněž pokus o racionální diskusi chymérou. Jako každý pokus o diskusi s někým, kdo je na čemkoli závislý (ano, včetně alkoholu, s mojí tetou bylo všechno marné…). Jedinci, kteří závislost na prsu matčině (životně nutnou) ve chvílích frustrace vyměnili za závislost na drogách, jedno jestli legálních, či nikoli. Přičemž začnou sborově kvičet a fňukat, jakmile se o jejich slabosti začne byť jenom diskutovat.

DDD – „Jsem ovšem přesvědčen, že v případě dospělého člověka je jen a jen jeho věc, jestli se chce rekreačně opít, zhulit nebo cokoliv jiného a jen a jen jeho riziko, že by si mohl vypěstovat návyk (asi jako když leze Bém po horách, taky může spadnout ale proto jeětě není třeba zakázat prodej cepínů).“
To jste se asi musel hodně natrápit, než jste vytvořil tuto „neprůstřelnou“ logiku. :O:O
Bohužel, vaše logika má minimálně jeden háček : Ponecháme-li stranou neskutečné srovnání cepínů a alkoholu/marihuany… pokud pod vlivem alkoholu a drog např. způsobíte přestupek, nebo dokonce trestný čin, můžete platit pokutu, nebo i skončit za mřížemi. Přičemž fakt, že jste byl pod vlivem, je dokonce brán jako přitěžující okolnost.To je ta nedokonalost demokracie, která si neváží totální svobody člověka. Trestá vás za svobodnou volbu a jednání. :(
Pak už je jenom detail, že člověk je tvor společenský. A že svým svobodným jednáním můžete někomu zničit život – rodičům, partnerovi, dětem… Ale co je jim potom, je to přece vaše věc. ;)


Většina drog a návykových látek oslabuje a likviduje mozkové buňky, což z některých komentářů zde přímo vyplývá. S narkomany, kuřáky, alkoholiky, gamblery a jinými obětmi je zkrátka jakákoli diskuse marná. Mohla by to být jen „jejich věc“ a dopady omezené, kdyby ten zatracený člověk nebyl tvor společenský… inu, co naplat. Kdo chce kam, pomožme mu tam (ale jen jemu...).
26. 01. 2009 | 11:21

Piži napsal(a):

Rericho - Porad zadny argument pro nasi debatu o kulture? Jen klasicky recnicky trik, ja to vim ale nepovim? Snazte se trochu. Uvedte nejaky prinos kultury, treba ja pak uvedu podobny prinos drog. Treba zjistime, ze opravdu nechcete zrusit kulturu, protoze vidite nejake rozhodujici rozdily mezi jejim prinosem a prinosem drog. Zatim jste zadne rozdily neuvedl, jen tvrdite ze jsou.

Povidejte, jak z meho prispevku plyne neznalost pojmu rakovinotvorne latky.

Zda nekdo prohlasuje ze je prinosne si zapalit ve smyslu rakoviny, na to jsem jeste nenarazil. Narazil jsem na lidi, kteri tvrdili ze prispevek jejich koureni k pravdepodobnosti rakoviny je zanedbatelny. Souhlasim, ze pokud nekdo tvrdi, ze koureni pravdepodobnost rakoviny snizuje, bude s nim debata problematicka.

Pokud svobodnym jednanim mohu nekomu znicit zivot, nebylo by dobre postavit mimo zakon svobodne jednani?

Chapu to spravne, ze vy mi tvrdite, ze nesmim pestovat kytky, protoze bych je teoreticky mohl pouzit tak, ze by to nekomu ublizilo?

Porad nechapu zda hajite trestnost temer cehokoliv kolem marihuany a pokud ji hajite, tak jakym principem.
26. 01. 2009 | 12:08

Řeřicha napsal(a):

Piži - Bohužel, k absurdnímu srovnávání kultury a drog mě nepřivedete.
Abyste správně chápal, problémem není nějaká záporná konotace drog, nýbrž (ne)smysluplnost takového srovnání.
Na „neutrálnější“ rovině bych také nevedl debatu o srovnávání přínosu makových koláčů a Karlštejnu, či Českomoravské vrchoviny.
Nevím, možná bych vnímal přínos takového debatování až po cca 2-3 jointech. ;)

V rámci pochopení nesmyslnosti argumentů kuřáku se chytáte, to je fajn. ;)

Ve zbytku vaší poslední repliky se znovu dere na světlo černobílé nedorozumění; kdy mi předhazujete moji touhu postihovat zákonem svobodnou vůli, "hulení", a kdo ví co ještě.

Jestli jde o bezelstné nepochopení, nebo neschopnost vést debatu v jiném duchu, než legalizovat/nelegalizovat, apod., je věc vedlejší.
Naposledy si tedy dovolím vás informovat, že do podobného schématu (…“Porad nechapu zda hajite trestnost temer cehokoliv kolem marihuany a pokud ji hajite, tak jakym principem“…) nezapadám.

Co se konkrétně týče legalizace samotné; jsem naopak pro – a to všemi deseti. Avšak pozor! Všude chleba o dvou kůrkách – tzn. zároveň s legalizací zvýšit trestní sazbu ve spojení přitěžující okolnosti při spáchání přestupku a trestného činu pod vlivem omamných a psychotropních látek.
Jelikož v takové situaci je patrné, že pachatel nemá kompetenci zvládnout užívání podobných „pohodiček“. Jinými slovy – dělej si co chceš, ale pokud to neukočíruješ a uděláš kravinu, po právu za ni draze zaplatíš.

Ke zbývajícímu (a daleko důležitějšímu) pojetí. Měl jsem na mysli osobní a společenské pojetí, moudrost a charakter. Klidně si pěstujte rostlinky, hulte si (ne někomu pod nos, pokud o to nebude stát…), konzumujte si rohlíčky s heroinovou náplní…
Pokud se dokážete ukočírovat a vaší činností neutrpí vaše okolí (tzn. zásah do svobody OSTATNÍCH…), je to čistě a jen vaše věc. Jenom se mě nesnažte přesvědčovat, že je to vždy a za všech okolností naprostá „brnkačka“ a o jakou skvělu záležitost, srovnatelnou s kulturou a uměním; jde.
Na podobné řeči jsem právem alergický, když se navíc v mém okolí díky podobným dlouhodobým aktivitám jedna osoba zhroutila a druhá umřela (předčasně,; respektive v mladém věku). Ušetřete si proto relativizování.

P.S. : A k těm rohlíčkům s heroinovou náplní – šetřete si čas a nervy, jde o nadsázku. Snad jsem zabránil alespoň jednomu nedorozumění. ;)

Přeji hezký den

...
26. 01. 2009 | 12:46

Piži napsal(a):

No vida, jak se to vyjasnilo. OK, s takovymto pristupem souhlasim.

Co se tyce drog a kultury podezrival jsem vas z toho ze vetou o neprinosnosti drog argumentujete ve prospech nejake ideje. Vy jste ji ale asi uvedl jen jako svuj pohled, ze ktereho dale nic neplyne.
26. 01. 2009 | 12:53

julezz napsal(a):

Jako člověk pokoušející se o nějakou smysluplnou prevenci viz http://www.chilliorg.cz/ souhlasim s autorkou článku - marihuana a heroin nejsou to stejný a sama za sebe osobně, soukromě, souhlasim, že tvrdit to dětem znamená, že velmi brzo zjistí, že jim vykládáte nepravdu a pak - logicky - mužete stejný nepravdy širít i o všem ostatním - sama jsem to zažila ;)
http://www.chilliorg.cz/alk... vs. http://www.chilliorg.cz/mar... vs. http://www.chilliorg.cz/kok...
29. 01. 2009 | 18:48

Začátečník napsal(a):

Jsem teprve čerstvě dospělí mladík  a v psaní do takovýchto diskuzí teprve začínám, takže se předem omlouvám. Ano podle mě mají pravdu ti, kteří tvrdí to že Marihuana drogou je (je to PRAVDA), ale i ti kteří tvrdí opak. Co vlastně dělá? Mohou po ní nastupovat pocity blaženosti, uvolnění (člověk mající problémy toto velice ocení a je za to vděčný. Proč mu tedy toto upírat) také však strachu ošklivých „halucinací“ (kde mohou platit učitelské povídačky o skocích z okna a podobných extrémních představách i když stát se to může, tím nejsem nijak proti učitelům;), kterých jsem byl svědkem, ale nestávají se nijak často. S touto rostlinou mám osobní zkušenost přibližně 2 roky a mohu jenom potvrdit, že je psychicky velice návyková, ač si to konzument nehodlá připouštět. Já osobně ji za drogu považuji ale pořád jen za lehkou a nikam jinam bych ji ani neředil. Konzument nepociťuje jakoukoliv fyzickou abstinenční reakci pouze jakousi chuť na onoho „Jointa“ kdesi v podvědomí, který se ztrácí hned po prvním „potáhnutí“ z oné marihuanové cigarety a tím se stává drogou! Další nevýhodou je zde krátkodobá paměť dlouhodobě v pr..li  a to doslova. Kouřit toto svinstvo pravidelně znamená rozloučit se se vzpomínkami na 2-3 den zpět, prostě to nevíte. Ale pojďme na to z té lepší stránky  marihuana velice obohacuje představivost a na zábavách jakéhokoliv druhu dodává lepší prožitek z hudby, také podporuje chuť k jídlu, jak už jste si asi stačili povšimnout . Takže závěrem bych řekl že marihuana by mohla být legální pro zodpovědné a ne typy jako já. Co vy na to?
09. 02. 2009 | 11:26

Nasranej fotr napsal(a):

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[url=http://d-mason.com/forum/index.php?topic=131617.new#new]eds http://parajumpersjacka.spwtz.org/ surroundedly boroglycerine [/url]
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10. 12. 2013 | 10:36

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