Nezaměstnanost: jak dlouho ještě?

09. 11. 2013 | 12:28
Přečteno 81737 krát
Zkraje každého měsíce mediálním prostorem prosviští téma nezaměstnanosti. Není to náhoda. Koncem prvního týdne každého měsíce totiž ministerstvo práce vydává tiskovou zprávu o registrované nezaměstnanosti v měsíci předchozím. V plejádě rozmanitých informací však stále chybí jedna z nejdůležitějších.

Ekonomickým ani sociálním problémem je nezaměstnanost dlouhodobá, které trvá dlouhé měsíce případně roky. Nezaměstnanost jako taková je přirozenou součástí tržní ekonomiky. Je důsledkem neustálých a mnohdy velkých změn ekonomických podmínek různých oborů, profesí, firem, odvětví a celých zemí i regionů světa. Občasné změny pracovního místa v životě člověka jsou potom přirozené a nezbytné. I proto ve statistikách najdeme, že každá měsíc několik desítek tisíc lidí ztratí práci nebo ji opustí ale obdobný počet, částečně stejných lidí nějakou práci najde. Jde prostě o plynulé přizpůsobování se neustálým změnám ekonomických podmínek. Ne každého dotčeného sice nutnost změnit práci potěší, ale je to stále mnohem lepší než obětovat dlouhodobý hospodářský růst a ekonomicky zemi nechat stagnovat.

Při dnešní rozmanitosti trhu práce není divu, že si lidé pár měsíců práci hledají, shánějí si informace o firmách kam mají nastoupit a zvažují alternativy. Úřad práce je pár měsíců vede jako nezaměstnané a nejde o nic strašného. Ale potom je zde druhá skupina nešťastníků, kteří zůstávají nezaměstnaní rok dva či déle, protože o práci prostě nezavadí (nemusíte mi připomínat, že tu je ještě třetí skupina nezaměstnaných, ale o té tu dnes nepíší).

Je to právě dlouhodobá nezaměstnanost, která je z ekonomického i sociálního pohledu tím skutečným problémem. Především o ni by se mělo ministerstvo práce, potažmo celá vláda zajímat a hledat cesty, jak ji výrazně snížit nebo eliminovat úplně. Dlouhodobá nezaměstnanost je dokonce mezinárodně definována jako nezaměstnanost trvající déle než rok (kdysi dávno to bylo půl roku...). Jenže paradoxně, právě o výskytu dlouhodobé nezaměstnanosti, se v tiskových zprávách ministerstva nedozvíme nic. Není potom divu, že o ní následně nepíší ani novináři.

Jaká je struktura dlouhodobé nezaměstnanosti, tedy kteří lidé jsou jí postiženi a kde, se u nás prostě stále nesleduje. Jsou to mladí absolventi škol nebo spíše lidé před důchodem? Jsou to ženy s menšími dětmi? Jsou to lidé vyučení nebo s maturitou a mladší či starší z nich? Jsou to lidé zdravotně či jinak znevýhodnění? A jsou na tom tito v celé zemi stejně nebo se to kraj od kraje, okres od okresu liší? Jde o lidi, u nichž se kumuluje nízké vzdělání, zdravotní postižení, věkový handicap a místo bydliště v ekonomicky problematické oblasti? Nevíme, neví se. Přitom potřebné údaje k výpočtu mají úřady práce dlouhá léta k dispozici ve svých informačních systémech. Stačilo by je dát dohromady, pověsit na web a poskytnout tak novinářům, analytikům a výzkumníkům. Možná by se potom dalo s nezaměstnaností, hlavně tou dlouhodobou, něco začít dělat.


Komentáře

Aktuálně.cz má zájem poskytovat prostor jen pro korektní a slušně vedenou debatu. Tím, že zde publikujete svůj příspěvek, se zároveň zavazujete dodržovat Kodex diskutujících. Pokud Váš text obsahuje hrubé urážky, vulgarismy, spamy, hanlivá komolení jmen, vzbuzuje podezření z porušení zákona, je celý napsán velkými písmeny či jinak odporuje zdejším pravidlům, vystavujete se riziku, že jej editor smaže.
Přejeme Vám zajímavou a inspirativní výměnu názorů.
Libor Stejskal, editor blogů (blogy@aktualne.cz)

Alice napsal(a):

Münichu, my nepotřebujeme dalšín statistiky, K čemu- když zjistíte že nezaměstnaní jsou mladí, staří, humanistické obory, tak co uděláte? Má stát zřídit politologický ústav s 500 000 zaměstnanci?
.
Potřebné práce je všude víc než dost, co brání jsou nesmyslné administrativní zásahy státu a vysoké daně, a také to že se tu dá žít velmi dobře jako nepracující parazit, tedy ony sociální dávky, přízpěvky na bydlení atd
09. 11. 2013 | 12:44

Parazit Socka napsal(a):

"... se tu dá žít velmi dobře jako nepracující parazit ..."

To jo.
Hezkým příkladem je třeba Parlament ČR.

Pravda ... práce by bylo dost. Ale dobře placené zaměstnání žádné ...

Třeba taková sezónní práce, jako je odklízení sněhu.
Naši předlistopadoví exulanti se touto prací dokázali na Západě uživit. Proč to není možné u nás?
09. 11. 2013 | 12:54

QQQQ napsal(a):

No tak to jsem zmatený, stačí nějaká někde uložená data a začne se s dlohodobě nezaměstnanýma něco dělat.
Tý jo, to mi připadá jako hodně mimo mísu. Ale to bude uřčitě mnou a mím základním nepochopením chodu světa.
09. 11. 2013 | 12:55

Vysoký školák napsal(a):

Pan Münich má "za ušima". :)

Asi se uchází o grant.
Projekt se bude jmenovat: "Průzkum struktury dlouhodobě nezaměstnaných - perspektivy vývoje v ČR".

Kolik nezaměstnaných absolventů VŠ tím pan Münich zaměstná?
09. 11. 2013 | 13:02

Bakalův nezvaný host napsal(a):

Tradiční oblbování a mlácení prázdné slámy.

Nezaměstnanost nebude problém, pokud bude dostatek pracovních míst.
„Nezaměstnanost“ dokáží asociálové snížit a mlžit, ale to, že je asi 15 nezaměstnaných na jedno volné místo, to je skutečný problém a o tom to je.

Kalousek, Drábek a spol oblbují, že na tom nejsme s nezaměstnaností špatně, ale že jsme na tom hodně špatně s počtem volných míst, tedy to podstatné, to neříkají.
Nebudu hledat aktuální čísla, ale tak před měsícem bylo porovnání ČR ku Německu či Rakousku asi 1 : 3, tedy, že náš trh práce nabízel méně než 1 % volných pracovních míst, Rakousko a Německo 2-5 – 3 % k celkovému počtu pracovních míst.
09. 11. 2013 | 13:03

Bakalův nezvaný host napsal(a):

V dobře spravovaných společnostech je tématem především to, co zajímá lidi.
V případě zaměstnanosti a nezaměstnanosti jsou to volná, dobrá a dobře placená pracovní místa, která slouží jak lidem, tak jsou přínosem pro společnost.
U nás je to především prezentace úspěchů asociálů, kteří se chlubí tím, kolika lidem dokázali sebrat podporu či je jinak dostat z evidence úřadu práce.
09. 11. 2013 | 13:12

Bakalův nezvaný host napsal(a):

Trh práce bychom měli sledovat podobným způsobem

(Jedna starší zpráva z USA jako ukázka)

„Nejočekávanější zpráva z americké ekonomiky o tvorbě nových pracovních míst mimo zemědělský sektor negativně překvapila trhy minulý pátek. Největší ekonomika světa dokázala minulý měsíc vytvořit pouhých 88 000 nových pracovních míst a znatelně tak škobrtla ve snaze o rychlou expanzi na trhu práce. Amerika nenavázala na skvělý výsledek z února, který byl revidován na zisk 268 000 nových pracovních míst.“
09. 11. 2013 | 13:22

vasja napsal(a):

Za stravu bych hned zaměstnal 3 kousky. Hrabání, rytí, kácení, řezání, štípání a úklid.
A žádný techniky. Ty si práci můžou najít. Jenom sociology, politology, religionisty. Ty sou chudáci.
09. 11. 2013 | 13:39

Roni napsal(a):

Bakalův nezvaný host napsal
Vážený,
ještě jste nepochopil jedno, tady na lidech nikomu nezáleží. Kdo se neumí o sebe postarat a tak nějak po kapitalisticku si nakrást, ten si nezaslouží žít. A pokud nemá dost sil to tady skončit, tak ať maká jako otrok kde chce a za co chce, nejlépe za chleba s vodou. Ale, elita národa - přežije, tedy myslí si to. :))
09. 11. 2013 | 13:46

Občan napsal(a):

Pane Münichu,

i kdybyste se uprůzkumoval, k ničemu se nedoberete.

FAKTA:
Cca 560 000 EVIDOVANÝCH nezaměstnaných.
POUZE cca 110 000 z nich bere podporu.
450 000 nezaměstnaných jsou DLOUHODOBĚ nezaměstaní (tzn. NEberou podporu a NEdostávají ŽÁDNÉ sociální dáky, pokud mají manželku/la nebo jinou osobu v domácnosti s čistým měsíčním "příjmem" nad 6200.- Kč vč. starobního, invalidního nebo pozůstalostního důchodu).
NEevidovaných nezaměstnaných je kolem 300 000.

Volných pracovních míst vč. nesmyslů jako je podomní prodej, "práce z domova", "poradenství" a švarcák všeho druhu je POUHÝCH 39 000.

Pokud započítáte pouze evidované nezaměstnané, pak Vám na JEDNO volné "pracovní místo" vyjde 15 zájemců.
Nejzákladnější logika nám říká, že na 14 zájemců nezbude NIC.
Pokud započítáte i neevidované, pak je na jedno místo 22 uchazečů. Máme zde ovšem regiony, kde je na jedno volné pracovní místo i více než STO uchazečů.
Dnes je situace již tak šílená, že nezaměstnaní vysokoškoláci běžně dělají "sekuriťáky", uklizeče, baliče ve skladech, pomocné mntováky v montovnách a jiné šílenosti.

No, a co se struktury týče:
51% z celkového počtu EVIDOVANÝCH jsou ženy; většina z nich ve věku nad 45 let.
Cca 70% z celkového počtu EVIDOVANÝCH jsou lidé s úplným SŠ vzděláním (vč. SOU s maturitou) a s VŠ vzděláním. Opět převážně ve věku 45+ (logicky - zaměstanavatelé v eráru i privátu se zbavují především zkušených kvalifikovaných zaměstnanců, protože ti mívají vlastní názory a zhusta jsou mnohem inteligentnější a kvalifikovanější než "manageři").
POUHÝCH 30% jsou lidé vyučení nebo zcela bez vzdělání (logicky - snáz hledají práci, protože se neorientují a tudíž přistoupí na cokoli).

Nevím, co chcete zkoumat. Stačí vlézt na stránky ČSÚ a tam najdete strukturální analýzu vč. grafů. "Jenom" je třeba počítat pouze s nominály a zcela ignorovat procenta. Ale i z webu MPSV lzer vyzobat potřebné údaje. Jen to chce trošku PRÁCE (já vím - fujfuj, síra...)
I já jsem SI pro SVÉ analýzy A ZA SVÉ našel potřebné údaje. VY jste ale za takovou práci PLACEN!

Pokud jste za ty roky v NERVu nebyl schopen udělat SI potřebnou analýzu SÁM, pak nechápu, co v tom spolku celou dobu pohledáváta a hlavně - CO jste vlastně vládám celou tu dobu radil?!

Ve svém profilu máte uvedeno, že "Zabývá se výzkumem především v oblasti ekonomie trhu práce a ekonomie vzdělávání s těmito výsledky. Učí v doktorském programu amerického střihu na CERGE-EI.". CO a JAK zkoumáte a vyučujete, když o sobě klidně zveřejníte, že o "pracovním trhu" a všech jeho souvislostech víte úplný kulový???

P.S.:
Definitivně zapomeňte na to, že dlouhodobou nezaměstnaostí jsou v ČR postiženi pouze lidé bez vzdělání a kvalifikace a zdravotně postižení.
Protože OPAK JE PRAVDOU - DLOUHODOBOU nezaměstaností jsou postiženi HLAVNĚ plně kvalifikovaní lidé středního věku a vyššího středního věku.
Ale dám Vám úplně zadarmo radu. Obejděte pár pracovních agentur, nechte se zaregistrovat, půjčte si od někoho montérky a absolvujte pár šichet s nádeníky (lepší sociologický studijní matroš si nemůžete přát) nebo "sekuriťáky". Pokecejte u balicího nebo montážního pultu či na obchůzce o jejich kvalifikaci a předchozí práci - budete překvapen, kolik tam potkáte učitelů, dokonce i VŠ pedagogy, inženýrů, magistrů, bakalářů i pár doktorů. Ani o EKONOMY a TECHNIKY není mezi nádeníky nouze. A budete mít analýzu jedna báseň.
Jenom jim raději neříkejte, co jste zač. Nepřežil byste to - což píši zcela bez nadsázky.
09. 11. 2013 | 13:47

komunista z Lehman Brothers napsal(a):

Jak dlouho ještě ?
Tak ze dva měsíce, až Singer řádně prodevalvuje měnu - tvrdil včera nějaký matlalapatlala z ČNB.
Až provětrá řádně kapsy těm, co nemají ty informace co měl on a jeho kumpáni.
" Ne , daně zvyšovat nebudeme, my lidi vystrašíme jinak."

Agrokombinát Babišovice na bilbordech sliboval, že on umí vytvářet pracovní místa /bohužel nedodával, že za peníze daňových poplatníků/. Teď povládnou, spolu se Singerem se dali dohromady už teď, skutečně jim to může začit fungovat, přibude tak pracovních míst /např. v sektoru exekutorském nebo lichvářském/.
---------------------------
Získal a Zakopal, s.r o.
- Osobní půjčky, konsolidace půjček, vymáhání dluhů, exekuce, dražby, osobní bankroty.
Opět nabíráme nové zaměstnance, přijdi mezi nás - republika tě potřebuje !
09. 11. 2013 | 13:59

Libertad napsal(a):

Pane Blogere,
vidím to stejně jako jeden z diskutujících. Asi si se připravuje grant (tedy vyhození peněz všech do vzduchu) a Vy byste je rád dostal na svůj účet.

Byl jsem čtyři roky před důchodem nezaměstnaný (ač invalidní s třemi dcerami mně po 25 letech propustili). Proto něco o tom Vím.

a) jakákoliv rekvalifikace nezaměstnaných by měla být realizována na již jisté konkrétní místo (jinak se stane, že už umíte obstojně anglicky, umíte dělat Web, stránky, udělal jste si kurs PÚ účetnictví, etc. a je to na nic.)
b) při propuštění lidí nad 55+ by každá větší firma mohla objednat u propuštěného jisté činnosti (ostraha objektu, kopírování, uklid etc.), ale to by se pak nedostalo na kamarády vedení, kteří nedělají nic, ale mají výhodné "vyváděcí smlouvy" na peníze a zaměstnávají lidi za minimální plat.
c) hodně lidí 55+(muži) by mohli být zaměstnání jako pochůzkáři u policie bez nároku na rentu. Ale to se nehodí do krámu. Hádejte komu.
d) usnadnit lidem 55+ vstup do jednoduchého podnikání, se taky nikomu nehodí do krámu. ČSSD v nich rovnou vidí parazity.

Zrušení povinnosti hlásit volná místa PÚ a zrušení povinnosti PÚ nabízet volná místa nezaměstnaným je dalším krokem k zvyšování počtu nezaměstnaných. To radši bude stát dohazovat peníze "specializovaným" agenturám nemalé peníze más všech a ony budou s pracovními pozicemi/místy kšeftovat.

Chtěl jsem 1-2 roky pracovat zadarmo v pozici asistent účetní, abych si pak po získání nezbytných zkušeností vybudoval svoji klientelu. NIKDO mi práci nenabídl.

Bez pozdravu

Sidonio LIbertad
09. 11. 2013 | 14:09

Xury napsal(a):

Pro Bakalův nezvaný host:
"Nezaměstnanost nebude problém, pokud bude dostatek pracovních míst. " - to je ovšem úžasný poznatek! A ten v dalším příspěvku: "V dobře spravovaných společnostech je tématem především to, co zajímá lidi. V případě zaměstnanosti a nezaměstnanosti jsou to volná, dobrá a dobře placená pracovní místa, která slouží jak lidem, tak jsou přínosem pro společnost." - ten je snad ještě lepší! Vy jste musel obědvat nějakou důvtipnou kaši. Ještě byste sem mohl hodit nějaký návod, když už jste tak v ráži.
09. 11. 2013 | 14:14

QQQQ napsal(a):

Libertad napsal:
Plat firmy agentuře 130,-kč hod otroka, plat otroka 50,-kč.
No nedělej to, když být otrokářem mě tak baví.

Díky: Top09, ODS, KDU-ČSL.....
09. 11. 2013 | 14:21

Občan napsal(a):

Jo, a ještě pár důležitých údajíčků, pane Münichu.
Asi před třemi dny vyšel článeček o struktuře zaměstnavatelů v ČR, kteří vytvářejí nová pracovní místa.

1) Tařka všechna pracovní místa vytvořená v ČR za poslední rok vznikla u společností se 100% zahraničními majiteli nebo s významnou majetkovou účastí ze zahraničí.
Čeští podnikatelé naopak hlavně propouštěli.
2) Většina pracovních míst vytvořených zahraničními subjekty je z oblasti nádenické práce. Tedy výrobní a skladoví "operátoři", "ostraha" majetku, objektů a prodejních ploch, řidiči v nákladní dopravě, úklidové práce. Konec, tečka, puntik... 50.- - 70.- Kč/hod. brutto, práce na dohodu o pracovní činnosti nebo o provedení práce, eventuálně úplný švarcák, žádná dovolená, nemocenská, mateřská a v budoucnu ani důchod.
3) Jak vtipně a přesně popsal nick "komunista z Lehman Brothers" - devalvací koruny provedli Babiš se Singerem okamžitý odstřel zejména malých a středních zaměstnavatelů a s nimi několika tisíc pracovních míst.
Parita kupní síly šla do kytek ještě víc než byla dosud; export nezlevní, protože materiálové, energetické a dopravní vstupy ZDRAŽILY (bo se obchodují za světové ceny); obyvatelstvo ze dne na den ještě chudší a s ještě víc znehodnocenými úsporami může reagovat jediným - ještě víc omezí svou spotřebu, ož povede k zániku dalších pracovních míst.
4) Strukturou vlastnictví a výrobní náplně DOTUJE ČR zahraniční vlastníky montoven a skladoven. Protože to, co vlastníci utrží PLUS rozdíl mezi mzdami v Německu, Rakousku, Dánsku apod. vlastníci VYVEZOU MIMO ČESKU EKONOMIKU a zrealizují ve svých domicilech. Mzdy NEzaplacené českým zaměstnancům (při se Západem plně srovnatelných životních nákladech) ještě víc podrážejí již tak slaboučkou domácí ekonomiku.

No, a protože to stejně nečtete a zásadně nereagujete, tak Vám závěrem řeknu jediné - táhněte už konečně k čertu se všemi spoluzločinci z NERVu, CERGE, CEVRO apod.
09. 11. 2013 | 14:30

Agáta napsal(a):

Občan napsal
A já dodávám.
Jenže "oni" sami k čertu nepudou, budeme jim muset pomoci. A já už se tak těším, zasejc budeme dvacet let znárodňovat a plno lidí bude mět co dělat. A takhle to každejch pětadvacet let otočíme. A světovou krizi ať vezme čert. Ještě že máme ten Českej hurá kapitalizmus.
09. 11. 2013 | 14:41

Občan napsal(a):

Libertade,

vcelku souhlas. Až na jeden naprostý nesmysl - "usnadnit lidem 55+ vstup do jednoduchého podnikání, se taky nikomu nehodí do krámu"
Hnát nezaměstnané lidi za hluboké hospodářské krize do "podnikání" znamená takřka 100% jistotu, že z nich uděláte bezdomovce. Letos do konce září zkrachovalo cca 1400 společností (PO) a asi 7500 živnostníků (FO). Do konce roku jich pěkných pár set ještě přibude, protože skončily sezonní práce.
Nezaměstnaní nemají žádný vstupní kapitál, bez kterého nerozjedou ani "jednoduché podnikání" (vůbec nevím, co si pod tím představit). Žádná banka jim nepůjčí bez ručení nemovitostí (v dnešní době půjčí banka max. 20% odhadní ceny nemovitosti). A o kdyby se pokusili, nebudou mít KOMU prodávat své zboží či práci; v nejlepším případě skončí jako "negři" (nádeníci ve švarcsystému).
09. 11. 2013 | 14:44

Petr Bilůina napsal(a):

Jaká je struktura dlouhodobé nezaměstnanosti, tedy kteří lidé jsou jí postiženi a kde, se u nás prostě stále nesleduje. Jsou to mladí absolventi škol nebo spíše lidé před důchodem? Jsou to ženy s menšími dětmi? Jsou to lidé vyučení nebo s maturitou a mladší či starší z nich? Jsou to lidé zdravotně či jinak znevýhodnění? A jsou na tom tito v celé zemi stejně nebo se to kraj od kraje, okres od okresu liší? Jde o lidi, u nichž se kumuluje nízké vzdělání, zdravotní postižení, věkový handicap a místo bydliště v ekonomicky problematické oblasti? Nevíme, neví se. Přitom potřebné údaje k výpočtu mají úřady práce dlouhá léta k dispozici ve svých informačních systémech. Stačilo by je dát dohromady, pověsit na web a poskytnout tak novinářům, analytikům a výzkumníkům. Možná by se potom dalo s nezaměstnaností, hlavně tou dlouhodobou, něco začít dělat.

Jsou to všichni, které jste zde jmenoval. Novináři,
analytici a výzkumníci vyřeší dlouhodobou nezaměstnanost? Pane, vraťte peníze za vaše studium a okamžitě přestaňte učit!
09. 11. 2013 | 14:54

komunista z Lehman Brothers napsal(a):

S tou mantrou " růstu" - bez znalosti struktury, kdy tak " růst" může znamenat součet megarůstu a poklesů / např. exportní ekonomika vs lokální/...s tím skutečně ať jezdí ti mudrlanti po mateřských školkách, pane Munich. Tam jim to budou zobat, možná ještě v útulcích pro hluchoněmé nebo v redakci Ekonomického zpravodajství ČTV - " děkujem za váš čas , pane analytiku, a nyní, vážení diváci upoutávka na pořad Sama doma...".
Jenže co v zemi, kde si nevidí do huby ani minist financí , předesda vlády a majitelé, respektive manažeři ČNB....kde máte tu společneskou poptávku po informacích takové povahy, že jsou využitelné jinak než k honění si politických trik na mantrách o konkurenceschopnosti /což má být zejména sinaizace zdejší společenské smlouvy/, růstu /čímže je míněno podporovat exportní korporace/, mobilitě pracovní síly /propouštění kdykoliv a bez podmínek/, ratingu státu / a jedním dechem vydávání dluhopisů za dvojnásobný úrok než je dosažitelný na trhu/...
V takovém prostředí snad ani nemá cenu za takové studie vyhazovat peníze...a to pomi u ty kyselé ksichtíky nekompetentních /ne vždy, často jen znechucených/ osůbek v kanclech Úřadů práce...k čemu by jim takové údaje byly, vždyť často nestíhají ani tu evidenční administrativu...

Možná by došlo k uspokojení anankastických podivínů v několika pár úřadech, několik párů upocených dlaní by omastilo složky s daty, několik upocených čel by starostivě hrbilo svý obočí a několik softwarových firem by si přišlo na slušný vývar...

Zkuste Agrokombinát Bebišovice, pane Munich, zkuste otestovat tu jejich poptávku po řešeních odborníků - zda i tam není jen vyfabulovaná, není to jenom o pokračování korumpování voličů.
A pokud neuspějete ani tam, tak pak jedině dotace EU nebo arcibiskup.
09. 11. 2013 | 15:45

komunista z Lehman Brothers napsal(a):

re : Babišovice
09. 11. 2013 | 15:46

xx napsal(a):

Občan: máte tam jednu podstatnou chybu - oháníte se evidovanými a neevidovanými nezaměstnanými, ale na druhé straně operujete jen s evidovanými volními pracovními místy, což je holý nesmysl a sám to dobře víte.

Protože:
1) v evidenci jsou často místa, které jsou již obsazená.
2) ne všechna volná místa se do evidence dostanou
3) spoustu pracovních příležitostí stát vytlačuje do šedé zóny kde se o ní nezaměstnaní postarají

Osobně znám několik lidí, kteří jsou v evidenci dlouhodobě nezaměstnaných, kteří se živí právě činnostmi, které jsou díky vysokému zdanění práce státem vytlačeny do šedé zóny. Oni sice neberou podporu ani jiné sociální dávky, ale vůbec jim to neschází, protože si v šedé ekonomice vydělají docela slušné peníze. Kdyby to ale dělali oficiálně, museli by polovinu peněz odevzdat státu a tím by se ta činnost stala i pro ně ekonomicky nezajímavou.

Jako příklad mohu uvést opravu podezdívky u našeho plotu. Přišel zedník, měl sebou pomocníka a týden na tom dělali. Peníze si vzali na ruku bez dokladu. S dokladem by to stálo o cca 50% víc. Oba jsou oficiálně nezaměstnaní. Pokud by to dělali oficiálně, museli by účtovat o 50% víc a pracovní příležitost by tím zanikla zcela.

Ne opravdu nešlo o daňový únik občane, protože pokud by to nebylo možné udělat pomocí šedé ekonomiky, stát by stejně nic nedostal, protože bychom to nedělali vůbec, nebo bychom si to udělali svépomocí. S tím žádný stát nemůže hnout. A není to žádný ojedinělý úkaz, ale docela běžný jev. O dvě ulice dál, takto postavili nezaměstnaní celý nový dům.

Čím více peněz stát lidem sebere, tím méně lidem zbude, aby zaměstnali nezaměstnané. Je to logické a naprosto přirozené. Jenom natvrdlí hlupáci a politici odtržení od reality tohle nedokáží pochopit.
09. 11. 2013 | 16:23

xx napsal(a):

xx: oprava - trochu jsem to pomotal. Stálo by to o cca 100% víc !!! Omlouvám se za chybu.
09. 11. 2013 | 16:27

xx napsal(a):

A ještě doplním neúprosnou statistiku. Dvě třetiny zaměstnanosti v celé Evropě zajišťují středně velké, malé a mikro firmy. Jednu třetinu pak firmy velké a korporace.

Babiš se sice ohání tím, že je největší zaměstnavatel v zemi, ale jeho korporace pořád spadá do té jedné třetiny.

Naproti tomu se korporace dělí o téměř dvě třetiny peněz, zatímco na ty dvě třetiny zaměstnanosti připadá jen jedna třetina peněz.

Může se někdo divit nezaměstnanosti a šedé ekonomice ? Ano může, jen ekonomický ignorant a nenapravitelný idealista socialismu.
09. 11. 2013 | 16:32

neo napsal(a):

http://www.mpsv.cz/files/clanky/12927/Analyza_zamestnanost_2011.pdf
struktura nezaměstnanosti
Nejpočetnějšími skupinami uchazečů o zaměstnání k 31. 12. 2011 stále byli vyučení a uchazeči jen se základním vzděláním nebo bez vzdělání (201,2 tis., resp. 139,6 tis. osob). Podíl vyučených (39,6 %) se na rozdíl od uchazečů s nejnižším stupněm vzdělání (27,5 %) snížil, stejně jako u uchazečů s úplným středním vzděláním s maturitou (15,5 %).
Struktura uchazečů o zaměstnání podle vzdělání tab.č.20
k 31. 12. 2010 k 31. 12. 2011 meziroční rozdíl
v tis. v % v tis. v % v tis. v %
uchazeči - celkem 561,6 100,0 508,5 100,0 -53,1 -9,5
z toho:
bez vzdělání 3,0 0,5 3,0 0,6 0,0 0,0
základní vzdělání 144,7 25,8 136,6 26,9 -8,1 -5,6
vyučen 232,4 41,4 201,2 39,6 -31,2 -13,4
středoškol. bez mat. 19,0 3,4 17,8 3,5 -1,2 -6,3
vyučen s mat. 27,8 4,9 24,7 4,9 -3,1 -11,2
gymnázium 14,9 2,7 13,8 2,7 -1,1 -7,4
SOŠ s mat. 87,4 15,6 79,1 15,5 -8,3 -9,5
vyšší vzdělání 3,8 0,7 3,7 0,7 -0,1 -2,6
vysokoškolské 28,7 5,1 28,5 5,6 -0,2 -0,7
Pozn.: drobné odchylky součtu osob v jednotlivých kategoriích od uvedeného celkového počtu souvisí se zaokrouhlením hodnot na jedno desetinné místo
Specifická míra nezaměstnanosti uchazečů o zaměstnání podle dosaženého vzdělání v roce 2011 vzrostla pouze v kategorii lidí se základním vzděláním (díky nárůstu SMN žen této kategorie) a potvrdily, že nezaměstnaností jsou stále nejvíce ohroženi lidé s nejnižším stupněm vzdělání. Jejich SMN (k 31. 12. 2011 37,8 %) byla 4,4násobná proti celorepublikovému průměru. U vysokoškoláků byla naopak SMN nízká - 2,7 %.
09. 11. 2013 | 16:34

xx napsal(a):

neo: to jsou také jen byrokratické nesmysly. Znám jednoho nevyučeného chlapíka, který dělá v místní elektromontážní firmě rozvody a revize elektro. Prostě se to naučil. Ale když by ho zaevidovali ouřadové, dali by ho do kolonky nevzdělaný beznadějný případ. Třeba kdyby ta firma co ho zaměstnává zkrachovala.

Tady je vidět jako je brokratický způsob škatulkování vzdálený od reality života a jak je to zbytečná činnost.

Tohle není ojedinělý případ. Máme v rodině několik lidí, kteří během života změnili katogorii aniž by na to měli nějaký úřednický glejt a tím pádem spadají stále do jiné škatulky než ve které jsou.

Na druhou stranu zdejší Občan - dvě vysoké školy a lebedí si ve škatulce dlouhodobě nezaměstnaný a nezaměstnatelný.

Život je od byrokratického pohledu na něj dost vzdálený. Zatím ! Naštěstí !!!

Často se bavím tím, jak jsou úředníci moc mimo realitu a vůbec netuší jak se život vyvíjí a kudy běží. Oni si rochní ve svých obrazech a co se děje venku vůbec netuší a ani je to nezajímá. Mají svůj svět na papíře a to jim stačí.
09. 11. 2013 | 16:49

MartinO napsal(a):

Nick "Občan" mě snad nikdy nepřestane fascinovat. Člověk, který se neustále naparuje jak umí skvěle analyzovat, jak umí přijít na kloub všem problémům, jaké má vědomosti a jací jsou všichni ostatní blbci. Přitom mu vůbec nepřijde divné, že právě on nemůže najít pořádnou práci, potažmo o jeho "znalosti a schopnosti" nikdo nestojí a každý tyto jeho "schopnosti" ohodnocuje velkou nulou. Přitom nehledá práci na Mostecku ale v Praze kde je medián mezd mužů s maturitou nebo VŠ přes 30.000 KČ a reálná nezaměstnanost stejné skupiny lidí se blíží nule.

Ani ho nenapadne, že by problém mohl být třeba u něho samého a místo toho svou neschopnost neustále svádí na někoho jiného. Jednou na zahraniční pracovníky, podruhé na zahraniční korporace, potřetí na české podnikatele, po čtvrté na vládu atd... Neuvěřitelné.
09. 11. 2013 | 16:56

xx napsal(a):

MartinO: protože Občan je bývalý dlouholetý úředník státní správy s dokonale vymytým mozkem, který považuje soukromý sektor za jakousi nepovinnou nadstavbu státu. Za hračičku zvrácených kapitalistů a novodobých otrokářů.

Tihle lidi mají deformovanou schopnost kritického myšlení v tom smyslu, že dokáží kriticky přemýšlet jen a pouze o soukromém sektoru a případně o selhání jednotlivců ve státní správě. Nikdy ale nedokáží kriticky hledět na fundamenty byrokracie a státní správy.

Jakékoli selhání v soukromém sektoru je pro tyhle lidi systémovou krizí celého sektoru, zatímco jakékoli selhání ve státní správě je VŽDY pouhým selháním jednotlivců.

To je základ myšlení těchto lidí.
09. 11. 2013 | 17:12

Jsem Martin Samohon, jsem zde správně ? napsal(a):

Nýmandi jako je MartinO mě nikdy nepřestanou fascinovat.
NIKDY NIC k tématu, ale jen ad hominem a to ještě formou pavlačových drbů.
Plete si diskuzní prostor se svým fallem, asi má proč.
09. 11. 2013 | 17:12

ld napsal(a):

Občan,

napsal jste to dobře.
V jednom ale autorovi křivdíte. On to tady čte. Docela bych se i vsadil, že na vaše vstupy zareaguje samostatným blogem. Před lety tak kontroval na mou glosu. Ale nechce se mi to hledat.
Já tyhle klausolíny taky "miluju", leč tento není zbabělec jako ti ostatní.
09. 11. 2013 | 17:17

Raději si tu hůl zlom o svou starou. napsal(a):

-Znám jednoho nevyučeného chlapíka, který dělá v místní elektromontážní firmě rozvody a revize elektro. Prostě se to naučil -
Já zase znám jednoho chytráka, který zde už publikoval tolik tkzv. příkladů typu " znám toho a to" , že zde vzniká oprávněné podezření, že jde o Brouka Pytlíka nebo fantastu, popřípadě lháře, který na podporu své " argumentace " tvrdí, že tetka odvedle povídala že to a to a tak to platí prostě všade, vy mi nevěříte ?

To, že pak použije slovní spojení " je to základem myšlení TĚCHTO lidí " - etdy na základě pavlačových drbů jedné takové tetky - MartinaO, odborníka na charaktery a životopisy lidí vyhodnotí někoho , aniž ho zná a ihned tak konstruuje škatulku, obskurním způsobem identifikovanou skupinu, do níž ale jistě nepatří další takový diagnostik nýmand MartinO, neb je to jeho kolega z pavlače...to jen dokresluje celou tragikomickou zoufalost této postavičky ze zábradlí kina Osvěta, libertariánského snílka o zemi kde včera znamená už zítra.
09. 11. 2013 | 17:25

muromec napsal(a):

Já teda nevím, ale v jednom filmu jsem viděl velice praktický recept na vyřešení nezaměstnanocti: Zřídí se státní podnik, v něm se zaměstnají všichni dlouhodobě nezaměstnaní z okolí. Každé ráno vafasují krumpáče a lopaty, vytyčí se jim obdélník 10 na 50, a do večera musejí vykopat jámu stejného rozměru 2 metry hlubokou. Na druhý den vyfasují jenom lopaty a ruční valce, a jámu co vykopali den předtím zase hezky zahrabou. Na třetí den vyfasují krumpáče a lopaty, vytyčí se jim obdélník 10 na 50... A tak hezky dokola, aby neztratili pracovní návyky. A podporu v nezaměstnanosti budou brát pod názvem "mzda".
Zapoměl jsem říct, že ten film byl o německém koncentráku. Ale to neva, nápad je to dobrý, co říkáte?
A proto teď všichni hezky spolu: "jsme tady v kapitalismu, je nám tady dobře, chcem tady zůstat aspoň tisíc let!"
09. 11. 2013 | 17:28

Vlado napsal(a):

Nezaměstnanost trvalý průvodní jev KAPITALISMU ve které neviditelná ruka trhu bezpečně ovlivňuje cenu práce.
Čím vyšší míra nezaměstnanosti tím nižší mzda.
Jak zde nickové akademickému ekonomovi připomenuli již čtvrt století jsou k dispozici statistické údaje o kterých se pídí, nebo touží po grandu? Tak čtvrt století řeší akademičtí ekonomové nezaměstnanost, kterou socialismus neznal. Jestli to nebude v systému a ten akademici jistě změnit nehodlají.
09. 11. 2013 | 17:38

muromec napsal(a):

A znáte tenhle vtip, záhorácký, ze Slovenska?
Tradiční vesnická zábava někde u Skalice, hrá Moravanka nebo Moravěnka, nebo Mistřínanka, ale to je vlastně jedno. A jedna hezky krojovaná maminka u stolu říká vedle sedícímu děvčeti, taky hezky krojovanému: "Haničko, běž si zatančit s naším ixixáčkem!"
Načež dívčina obrátí oči k stropu a říká:
"Ale tetičko! S takovým k.k.tem?"
09. 11. 2013 | 17:38

xx napsal(a):

Vlado: to jste trefně popsal „socialismus neznal nezaměstnanost“. Bylo toho víc co socialismus neznal. A proto z bohaté země vyrobil rozvojovou. Z bohatých podnikatelů vyrobil chudáky nebo emigranty. A ze všech lidí zaměstnance. Velká část pracovala na úkor ostatních ale všichni měli oficiálně práci a nebyli nezaměstnaní.

Je to jako kdyby jste dnes prohlásil, že všichni nezaměstnaní jsou zaměstnanci státu a stát jim bude dávat peníze. Přesně to totiž udělal socialismus.

Problém socialismu ale je ten, že mu vždy nakonec dojdou peníze, protože produktivním seberou peníze aby mohli zaplatit neproduktivní, čímž těm produktivním seberou motivaci k výkonu.

Pomalu pak začnou všichni chudnout.
09. 11. 2013 | 17:49

MartinO napsal(a):

Občane (nebo to psal ten úchyl Maloměšťák?),
ty "pavlačové drby" o sobě jsi tady a na vlkovo psal a píšeš sám, takže tvým stížnostem opravdu nerozumím.
Já jsem rád za to, že jsem nýmand, podle tvé definice. Nýmand se totiž v tvém podivném zvráceném světě zřejmě pozná podle toho, že o práci nemá nouzi, o finance jakbysmet, neustále neskuhrá a nenadává, ze svých osobních neúspěchů, selhání a proher neobviňuje nikoho jiného než sebe.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:03

Občan napsal(a):

Dvouiksko,

KDE vzal ten Váš fiktivní "elektrikář" kulaté razítko (bez něhož je jakákoli REVIZE elektrorozvodu neplatná)?
Kulaté razítko pochopitelně nedostane bez absolvování příslušných zkoušek. A příslušné zkoušky nemůže absolvovat bez PROKÁZANÉ kvalifikace.

Tolik k Vašemu fiktivnímu "elektrikáři"...
09. 11. 2013 | 18:05

fafnir napsal(a):

MartinO
problém nicku "občan" není sehnat práci.Tu je možno sehnat,ale musel by tam, nedejbože,i pracovat,a musela by za ním nějaká práce být vidět.On shání zaměstnání,bez oněch nesmyslností viditelné práce,za to s vysokou mzdou.
BTW.nic osobního,leč naříká již hodně dlouho,a když je tázán na rekvalifikaci,naříká že by si to musel platit.Prostě jeden z těch,kdo soudí,že svět byl stvořen proto,aby se o jeho osobu starali jiní.Nečiní li tak,pociťuje to jako křivdu.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:08

smutný napsal(a):

xx

mohl by jste nám povyprávět, jak kapitalistům před vznikem sociálních států záleželo na životech svých zaměstnanců a jejich rodinách, jak se měli jejich zaměstnanci výborně?

Ty astronomické dluhy Ameriky má na svědomí socialismus?? Pomalu tam všichni chudnou, dokonce bankrotují města. Ještě že u nás máme kapitalismus a tak všichni bohatneme.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:11

fafnir napsal(a):

Občan
ale můžete být nevyučený elektrikář,a přesto splńovat kvalifikaci.Stačí SPŠ -elektro,+ kurs a zkoušky na vyhlášku 50,a několik dalších školení.Eo ipso,je to možné,včetně toho kulatého razítka.Můžete se na to vrhnout.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:15

fafnir napsal(a):

smutný
nevím jak jste na tom byl před 89,já jsem rozhodně podstatně bohatší.A svobodnější.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:17

fafnir napsal(a):

Smutný
ano ty astronomické dluhy Ameriky má skutečně na svědomí Obamův socialismus.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:18

xx napsal(a):

Občan: kulaté razítko má samozřejmě jeho zaměstnavatel vy analytiku.

Opět jen dokazujete, jak naprosto cizí je vám reálný život a schopnost lidí si poradit v situacích, kdy je těžkopádná byrokracie bezmocná.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:27

smutný napsal(a):

fanfir

to máte špatné informace, Obama ty dluhy převzal po republikánech.
Já to bohatství neberu jen ze svého pohledu, nejsem sobec ani zaslepený pravičák.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:28

StandaT napsal(a):

xx: tentokrát nemáte pravdu Vy. Na revize je razítko "na jméno".
09. 11. 2013 | 18:37

xx napsal(a):

smutný: no to byste nám možná pane kolego mohl odvyprávět, jak moc záleželo za socialismu státu na lidech. Ekologickou zátěž pociťujeme a splácíme dodnes. Kolik elektráren na uhlí mělo odsíření ?

Byl jste někdy před listopadem 89 v Jizerských horách ? A dnes ? Dodnes se dají najít stopy po tom, jak moc za socialismu záleželo na lidech. Kyselé deště, zplodiny že nebývalo vidět, sníh do hodiny po napadnutí zčernal, ochranné pomůcky v práce jen na papíře.

Před listopadem 89 jsem prošel několika provozy, lakovna, galvanovna, mořírna - tam se člověk mohl na vlastní plíce přesvědčit, jak moc šlo za socialismu o člověka ! Vybavení z první republiky, ochranné prostředky vesměs neúčinné nebo rovnou rozbité, ale co je nám do lidí, hlavně splnit plán !

Jo mám hrozně rád, když lidé co seděli v teplých kanclech na ústředních a jiných výborech něco vypravují o podmínkách za kapitalismu, vyčteních ze skript na Vokovické Sorboně (VŠP ÚV KSČ).
09. 11. 2013 | 18:39

xx napsal(a):

StandaT: já ale nikde nepsal, že dotyčný zaměstnanec má nějaké razítko. Uvažujete jak nějakej byrokrat.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:41

Targus napsal(a):

To: fafnir

Obama nasekal bilionové dluhy za čtyři roky. Jste fákt dobréj.
A teď tu "O Budulínkovi".

To: Daniel Münich

Pokud se nepletu, nářky uvedené v článku jste na těchto stránkách prezentoval již nejméně jednou. To už vám došla spisovací invence nebo jste ještě opravdu nepřišel na to, že se dají potřebné údaje vyčíst ze statistických ročenek?
A s takovým člověkem máme vybudovat zářné kapitalistické zítřky - docela neštěstí...
09. 11. 2013 | 18:49

uno napsal(a):

muromec: ten Váš postřeh s tím kopáním a zasypáváním jam byl legálně praktikován ve věznicích Cizinecké Legie v Africe, tam vězni nekopali jámy, ale přemisťovali velkou haldu písku z jednoho místa na druhé, každý den totéž. Což u nás vytvořit něco podobného propuštěním všech pudřenkářů, aby občané vyhazovali odpad ne do popelnic, ale vytrousili na ulici. Nezaměstnaní by jim to pak v noci naházeli zpátky do zahrady, nebo rozbitým oknem do sklepa. Občané by to pak na druhý den vynosili zpátky na ulici a tak by se to opakovalo, než by se ten sajrajt úplně a samovolně nerozložil a neshnil. Nebylo by třeba zřizovat skládky, občané by nemuseli platit za odvoz odpadu a co by se nerozložilo by nezaměstnaní odvezli do sběru, nebo v parku na hromadě zapálili a opékali by si nad ohněm vuřty a v zimě se ohřívali. Menší množství nezničitelného a nepoužitelného odpadu, které by zbylo by nezaměstnaní odvezli na nejbližší nádraží a nepozorovaně naložili do odstavených prázdných vagonů a ty by to pak odvezly na místo určení.
Mám takový podivný pocit, že něco podobného už dvacettři let probíhá na nejvyšší politické úrovni a na ministerstvech, kde líní a neschopní úředníci využívají služby externích společností, které pracují a myslí za ně a my daňoví poplatníci to platíme.. Pokud by v tom pouličním odpadu bylo něco ke zpeněžení, tak o to by se postarali Klausem amnestovaní zloději, bylo by jich na to dostatek a nemuseli by končit opět za mřížemi, byli by prospěšní. Doufám, že některé takové postřehy za tichého souhlasu oranžových, rudých a žlutých uskuteční ANO, už se nemohu dočkat, jak bude plebs kvičet! Doporučuji, aby si opět připravil klíče na cinkání a hlasivky na sborový pokřik "Nejsme jako oni!".
Ještě poznámku k té stávce horníků - pamatuji, jak po sametovce v televizi radostně vítali kapitalismus a kvíleli, jak se budou mít dobře. Všeho do času, už tehdy za několik týdnů byl v televizi pořad, jak nezaměstnaní horníci stojí ve frontě před pracákem, kdo chce kam, pomozme mu tam. Vůbec mě jich není líto, co chtěli, to mají. To hlavní období kapitalismu, až lid bude úplně na dně, teprve přijde za několik let, pak vypuknou sociální bouře a historie se bude opakovat. Ad absurdum!
Není mě jasné, jak to dělali ti komunisti, že všichni měli práci, kdo nepracoval byl kriminální živel, skoro všichno občané byli skoro stejně chudí. A dnes? Máme přes půl milionů prácechtivých občanů, ale práce není, a při tom většina těch dole je zase stejně chudá, jako byla ta komunistů.
Moudrý muromče, vysvětlete mě, čím to je!
09. 11. 2013 | 18:50

smutný napsal(a):

xx

jak jste přišel na to, že vychvaluji socialismus?? Já jen nevychvaluji kapitalismus jako vy. Kdyby se ti kapitalisti chovali jinak k lidem, tak by k žádnému znárodňování nedošlo. Dokonce prý nějaký kapitalista řekl, že si za to můžou sami, což byla pravda. Naivně jsem si myslel, že se kapitalisti poučili, ale je vidět na Americké krizi která vyvolala světovou krizi, že ne.
09. 11. 2013 | 18:53

fafnir napsal(a):

xx
já ještě dodám
Smutný,povídejte vyprávějte,jak moc socialismu záleželo na lidech.XX tu uvedl příklad Jizerek,já dodám Krušné hory,Krkonoše,a kyselé deště.Nedýchatelno v Teplicích,Ústí, Mostu,na Kladně a možno pokračovat v dalších městech.Kolik se muselo odtěžit zeminy při stavbě Sazka Areny po bývalém ČKD,jak jsou skvělé ještě nyní kalové laguny v Ostravě.To lidé podle vás nedýchali? A štěstí celku,- to myslíte ten ostnatý drát kolem dokola,aby z toho vašeho štěstí nikdo nemohl pryč,včetně § za opuštění republiky, a persekuce příbuzných(a musel jste to uvádět v každém dotazníku při nástupu do zaměsnání).Inu vy jste možná byl šťastný,jako ti milicionáři,když si k nám do Prahy přijeli do nás bouchnout pendrtekem.Inu není nad štěstí celku
09. 11. 2013 | 18:57

smutný napsal(a):

xx

Mohl by jste nám povyprávět jak záleží kapitalistům na lidech třeba na příkladu Bhopálu? Došlo u nás za socialismu k podobné tragédii zaviněné státem?
09. 11. 2013 | 18:58

fafnir napsal(a):

tarqus
jenom pro přesnost,víte jak se v anglčtině řekne miliarda?
09. 11. 2013 | 19:00

smutný napsal(a):

fanfir

tak ještě jednou pro ty pomalejší - já nevychvaluji socialismus!
09. 11. 2013 | 19:03

Parabellum napsal(a):

Občan

Občane, já nyní funguju jako hlavní inženýr projektu asi za 140 milionů, a také nemám kulaté razítko - autorizovaný inženýr ve výstavbě - stačí, že toto má jednatel firmy, ve které působím jako kontraktor.

A ještě něco Občane:

Ze srazů historického šermu možná znáte jistého pána s dlouhými prošedivělými vlasy před čtyřicítkou z České Lípy, toho času z Křešic. Křesním jménem se jmenuje Jirka a příjmení začíná na Č. Tak se jej zeptejte, jaká je to bída být agenturním zaměstnacem, a jak, když měl v akci v Drásově, tak pobíral kromě platu (nadprůměrného) ještě dalších přes 21-23 tisíc nezdaněných cestovních náhrad (ze kterých si hradil dopravu a ubytování), a jak jej zaměstnavatel, když pro něj nebyla práce nechával doma na PLNÉ MZDĚ. Na středoškoláka bez jazyků slušné ne? Nerozbít vzteky u zákazníka computer, vydrželo by mu to dodnes. To je docela v příkrém rozporu s těmi vašimi 50-70 korunami hrubého. A jsou i jiní agenturní zaměstnaci, kteří sice dělají za těch vašich asi 400/den, ale spíše 1000/den ale v USD.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:04

fafnir napsal(a):

Inu smutný
vy Bhopálem,a co takhe pokusné zastavení reaktoru v Černobylu(bylo nutno splnit příkaz UVKSS),nebo takový pěkný příklad u Čeljabinsku,při zkouškách jaderných zbaraní,bez varování obyvatelstva,nebo jak to vypadá v Semipalatinsku,povídejte,přehánějte.A to přece SSSR byla ta nejsocialističtejší ze socialistických zemí.Socialističtěší už byli jen Rudí Khmerové.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:07

Xury napsal(a):

Pro smutného:
stačí Černobyl?
09. 11. 2013 | 19:17

Občan napsal(a):

Dvouiksko,
když už chcete lhát, tak musíte být dobře připraven.
Kulaté razítko se nevydává "na firmu", ale je VŽDY vázáno ke konkrétní FYZICKÉ OSOBĚ.
Elektrikařina je, mimochodem, i setsakra vázaná živnost. Bez PROKÁZÁNÍ kvalifikace (vyučení nebo SŠ či VŠ v daném oboru PLUS doklady o vykonaných zkouškách) nedostanete živnosťák ani kdybyste nabídl jako úplatek Karlštejn. Dtto zaměstnání jakékoli osoby jako elektrikáře.

Jistěže jsem stroj, rekapčo pitomá...

Tak. To bychom měli REALITU a teď se můžete zase v poklidu oddávat svému pábení.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:21

smutný napsal(a):

fanfir
Bhópálská katastrofa je největší známá průmyslová havárie v historii. V noci z 2. na 3. prosince 1984 se stala v indickém městě Bhópál průmyslová katastrofa v chemické továrně patřící americké společnosti Union Carbide. Během nehody uniklo do okolí továrny cca 40 tun methylisokyanátu (MIC), kyanovodíku a dalších látek poškozujících lidské zdraví. Během tří dnů po havárii zemřelo v Bhópálu a jeho okolí přibližně 8,000 lidí, do dnešního dne okolo 25,000 lidí.[1] a celkový počet zasažených lidí dosáhl počtu 520,000.

Dlouhodobé zanedbávání bezpečnosti[editovat | editovat zdroj]

Společnost Union Carbide měla již jeden závod na výrobu pesticidů v malém městečku v USA v Západní Virginii. Když stavěli novou továrnu v Bhópálu, která měla americký podnik kopírovat, udělali mnoho změn ve formě snížení bezpečnostních systémů. Místo nerezové oceli použili běžnou ocel a pro skladování chemikálií postavili obrovské nádrže tak, aby jich potřebovali, co nejméně. To vše proto, aby byly náklady na stavbu Bhópálské továrny o ccca 8.000.000 dolarů nižší, než náklady na továrnu v USA. Když se závod rozběhl, provedlo vedení další snižování nákladů. Chladicí systém, který držel MIC v nádrži na 0 °C byl zastaven, aby se ušetřilo cca 70 dolarů za den. Polovina lidí, kteří v továrně pracovali, byla propuštěna. To znamenalo, že o polovinu méně lidí dohlíželo na bezpečnost.

HAVÁRIE JADERNÉ ELEKTRÁRNY ČERNOBYL

To, že slova „Černobyl“ a „Jaderná nehoda“ dnes vnímáme téměř jako synonyma, způsobil experiment, který měl v reaktoru jaderné elektrárny ověřit setrvačný doběh turbogenerátoru. Test měl být proveden těsně před odstavením reaktoru z provozu. Experimentem se mělo zjistit, zda bude generátor jaderného reaktoru po rychlém uzavření páry do turbíny schopen při svém setrvačném doběhu ještě zhruba 40 sekund napájet proudem čerpadla havarijního chlazení.

Před zahájením testu jaderné elektrárny Černobyl a v jeho průběhu došlo k několika vážným lidským chybám a nedodržení bezpečnostních předpisů. Následkem toho v průběhu experimentu nekontrolovatelně vzrostl výkon reaktoru, došlo k přehřátí paliva a destrukci jeho pokrytí. Následovala jaderná havárie - dva výbuchy (zhruba 40 – 60 sekund po zahájení experimentu).
*******************************************************************

V případě Černobylu ani slovo "o dlouhodobém zanedbávání bezpečnosti"
Inu fanfire povídejte a přehánějte.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:21

Občan napsal(a):

Fafníre,
americký státní dluh se skutečně pohybuje v BILIONECH dolarů. Americky "trillions", česky "biliony".
Momentálně někde kolem 2400 MILIARD doláčů, což je 2,4 BILIONU.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:25

MartinO napsal(a):

smutný:

tady něco přímo od nás, z Kyjovska:

http://www.czech-press.cz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7376:maly-esky-ernobyl-sp-634390438&catid=1516:1994-01&Itemid=148

Stačí?
09. 11. 2013 | 19:26

Xury napsal(a):

Pro smutného:
havárii v Černobylu ovlivnila řada faktorů, z nichž některé byly spojeny s vojenským využíváním jaderných reaktorů tohoto typu (produkce plutonia) a další s politickými okolnostmi - tlak na rychlé spuštění, což vedlo k vypuštění některých zkoušek při spouštění. Na stavbě samé, pak z úsporných důvodů došlo k omezení některých protihavarijních opatření, která měla snížit možné následky havárie.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:32

smutný napsal(a):

MartinO

pro ty ještě pomalejší podruhé - JÁ NEVYCHVALUJI SOCIALISMUS!
09. 11. 2013 | 19:35

Xury napsal(a):

Pro občana:
aktuálně je dluh USA ve výši cca 15.6 bilionu USD. Když Bush odcházel z úřadu tak činil cca 9 bilionů a za jeho éry narostl o necelé 3 biliony. Obama je v tomto daleko úspěšnější.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:36

fafnir napsal(a):

Smutný
"V případě Černobylu ani slovo "o dlouhodobém zanedbávání bezpečnosti"
Jenom otázečka,jaký měl Černobyl conteiment,na ochranu před havarií,ano nejednalo se o jaderný výbuch,byl úrovozován doběh,bez zajištění náhradních zdrojů pro pohon chladicích čerpadel,zároveň neexistovala žádné další chlazení.Tak to bychom měli Černobyl,a co ten Čeljabinsk
Nukleární vojenský komplex Maják, 29. září 1957
Na úbočí Uralu poblíž Čeljabinska leží jedno z největších jaderných pracovišť na světě - zařízení Maják. Již půl století produkuje plutonium do jaderných bomb z vyhořelých palivových článků. Dne 29. září 1957 způsobil defektní chladící systém, že do ovzduší uniklo neznámé množství radioaktivních látek srovnatelné s černobylskou katastrofou. V následujících desetiletích bylo ozářeno více než 272 tisíc obyvatel. Oblast patří mezi nejradioaktivnější místo planety. Hlavním místem utrpení je vesnice Musljumovo, vzdálená 30 km od atomového komplexu. Zde už není zdravý prakticky vůbec nikdo. Fotografie byly pořízeny v letech 2000-2001 právě z této oblasti.(kam se hrabe Bhopál)
Ještě zkuste okecat ten Semipalatisk.Tady máte možnost k okecávání a potvrzení starostlivosti o lidi za bolševika:http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semipalatinsk%C3%BD_jadern%C3%BD_polygon
09. 11. 2013 | 19:36

fafnir napsal(a):

Smutný
nevychvalujete socialismus?Ale z vašich vyjádření to tak nevypadá.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:40

Parabellum napsal(a):

Občan

Vy jste fakt exot. Tak v praxi to jaksi vypadá tak, že ten dotyčnej vobejde s měřákem a blokem a tužkou ten revidovanej objekt, napíše revizní správu, a jednatel firmy na to dá razítko. Vy běžně žádáte jako zákazník po revizákovi eletriky doklad totožnosti? Z jakého zákoného titulu?
09. 11. 2013 | 19:40

smutný napsal(a):

tohle je moc zajímavé čtení, bohužel smutné - Dívka, která málem zemřela, když vyráběla váš iPad http://www.blisty.cz/art/69551.html

Kdepak, není nad kapitalismus, nic lepšího nemůže být.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:43

Parabellum napsal(a):

Parabellum

To je s Váma blbý,když nerozeznáváte mezi zaměstnancem a OSVČ. Nebo neumíte číst psaný text? MartinO psal, že ten dotyčný je zaměstnanec.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:43

Parabellum napsal(a):

smutný

Co máte za problém?

Každým svým tuknutím do klávesnice pějete oslavné ody na ten nejkapitalističtější a nejbezohlednější kapitalismus, bez ohledu na obsah, co sem vyzvrátíte. Protože to klofáte z klávesnice, kterou nějaká třináctiletá čínanka smontovala za pár hrstí rýže denně.

Kdybyste byl zastáncem sociálního státu, tak jste vzal předevčírem mávátko s rudou hvězdou a stuhou, jakožto komunikačním prostředkem socialismu, a vyrazil byste do ulic.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:46

Parabellum napsal(a):

Parabellum

Příspěvek v 09. 11. 2013 | 19:43
byl adresován Občanovi
09. 11. 2013 | 19:47

xx napsal(a):

Občan: kdo z nás dvou je větší lhář, bychom si zase mohli napsat soukromě.

Vymýšlíte si blbosti o kterých jsem nic nepsal, jenom abyste mne mohl napadat ze lhaní. Já nepsal nic o vlastnictví firmy, živnostenského listu ani o razítku.

V tom je právě ten rozdíl. Vy vidíte svět skrze normy a předpisy a ve své úřednické nadutosti si myslíte, že se jimi lidé do puntíku řídí. Ale to samozřejmě není pravda a realita života je o dost jinde, než jsou vaše úřednické představy.

V letech 1988-1991 jsem pracoval v jednom strojírenském podniku v rozvodně el. energie. Ačkoli jsem neměl ani padesátku, několikrát jsem přepojoval VN na záložní vedení, pracoval jsem na údržbě transformátorů, dokonce jsem natahoval podtápění na energomostě bez zajištění.

Ano, představte si, že v reálném světě lze věci dělat i přesto, že podle zákonů a norem to je nemožné.

Každý kdo má nějaké životní zkušenosti z průmyslu, tedy především z reálného světa, mi porozumí. Lidé jako vy, kteří celý život znají jen paragrafy a papíry si mohou myslet, že jsem lhář.

Já na to mohu říci jen jediné - otevřete oči a jděte do reálného světa. Zjistíte, jak směšný a absurdně nerealistický a chudý je ten váš svět byrokracie, norem a zákonů a naopak jak pestrý a barevná je reálný život lidí, nespoutaných předpisy a strachem z nich.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:50

smutný napsal(a):

Parabellum

...my tady nemáme sociální stát? Zatím. Vy nejste zastáncem sociálního státu?
Vy jste zastáncem takovýchto praktik:

Mýtus č. 1: Kapitalismus 19. století položil základy moderní, svobodné, demokratické a humanistické společnosti:

Toto tvrzení v různých variacích s úspěchem propagované zejména současnými postmoderními pravicovými konzervativci jen těžko obstojí v kontextu s historickými skutečnostmi. Nespokojení dělníci se od počátku 19. století začali spolčovat nejprve ilegálně v malých skupinkách později po legalizaci ve větších spolcích proti vykořisťovatelskému přístupu továrníků. Tak vznikly v Anglii Trade Unions (odbory) následované vznikem odborů v dalších zemích Evropy. Jejich snahy však často vyšly naprázdno. Továrníci raději i za cenu velkých finančních ztrát v důsledku prostojů nechali stávkující dělníky vyhladovět. Věděli, že dělníci se po týdnu zase vrátí do práce, aby mohli živit své rodiny. O tom jak dopadli ti, kteří se pokoušeli domáhat se svých práv svědčí události jako povstání Pařížské komuny v roce 1871, při jehož násilném potlačení během jediného týdne zemřelo okolo 17.000 dělníků [2]. Když se sdružili řemeslníci, jejichž existence byla strojní výrobou ohrožena, do hnutí luddistů a začali ničit stroje v továrnách, vydali angličtí zákonodárci zákon (1812), podle něhož bylo ničení strojů těžkým zločinem trestaným smrtí. Z výše uvedeného je zřejmé, že raný kapitalismus byl vším možným jen ne počátkem procesu demokratizace společnosti.

Mýtus č. 2: Průmyslová revoluce (1750 – 1850 ) a kapitalismus vedly k zlepšení pracovních podmínek prostého lidu a snížení podílu namáhavé práce:

Historické prameny dokládají, že pracovní doba se v první fázi prodlužovala a to až do roku 1847 (desetihodinový zákon) nejprve na 12 a později na 14 až 16 hodin denně. Rovněž fyzické nároky na jedince (dělníka) rostly. Dokládat to můžeme například na pracovní činnosti přadláka spřádajícího přízi na poloautomatickém spřádacím stroji mule s 372 – 404 vřeteny (kolem roku 1830). Jeho činnost je popsána v [1] takto: „Zatímco na jedné mule probíhal automatický proces spřádání, musel přadlák na druhé provést vjezd a navíjení, pak se obrátit a stejnou činnost udělat na prvním stroji. Podle délky výjezdu, tedy předení a navíjení to trvalo cca 20 vteřin – to při 12 hodinové směně znamenalo přibližně 4300 – 4800krát zavést vozík těžký asi 800 kg, levou rukou obsloužit navíjecí drát a pravou rukou pohánět vřetena.“ Připomeňme, že spřádání na ručním kole bylo před průmyslovou revolucí hlavně doménou žen. Obsluhovat poloautomatický spřádací stroj však mohli jen dobře stavění muži, jejichž fyzicky náročná činnost si v ničem nezadala s činností horníka. Z výše uvedeného tedy vyplývá tvrzení: Strojní výroba nebyla zaváděna ku prospěchu továrního dělníka nýbrž jen a pouze k zvýšení produktivity a maximalizaci zisku továrníka. Fyzické nároky kladené na továrního dělníka se limitně blížily únosnosti lidského organizmu a neměly v celých dějinách obdoby. Tato tvrzení dokládá další strojní aplikace: strojní škrabáky na pudlování železa. Ty se nikdy ve výrobě pudlované oceli nerozšířily, protože nepředstavovaly podstatné zvýšení produkce, ale jen snížení fyzických nároků na pudlaře.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:58

smutný napsal(a):

pokračování:

Mýtus č. 3: Dětská práce byla v 19. století nezbytná pro chod společnosti a v ničem se nelišila od dětské práce v obdobích předcházejících:

Práce dětí sice byla i před průmyslovou revolucí, ovšem zatímco předtím pracovaly děti především na polích či v řemeslných dílnách po boku rodičů, v době raného kapitalismu pracovaly mimo rodinný kruh v pracovním poměru přímo k podnikateli. Na dozor nad prací dětí byli továrníkem najímáni výlučně muži s odůvodněním, že: „ženy nemají dostatečnou tvrdost a brutalitu, aby držely dětské pomocníky 12 hodin v poklusu“ [1]. Tak se děti ocitly v pracovních prostředích dosud nevídaných. Například v dolech na severovýchodě Anglie v roce 1840 tvořily děti 41 % všech zaměstnaných. Menší děti hlídaly průduchy pro odvětrávání dolů: trapdoors, větší potom sloužili jako vozači. Vozači měli za úkol převážet vozíky s vytěženým uhlím. Důvod proč na tuto práci nebyly nasazeny zvířata byl prozaický: denní výkon dětí byl vyšší než u zvířat a navíc použití zvířat by vyžadovalo nákladné rozšíření průřezů štol. Opět tedy šlo hlavně o maximalizaci zisku továrníka. Horní zákon až v roce 1842 na základě parlamentní vyšetřovací komise ve Velké Británii práci dětí do 10 let v dolech sice zakázal. V praxi však tento zákon nebyl dodržován.

Shrnutí:

Vzhledem k dějinným skutečnostem pevný pilíř demokratické společnosti rozhodně nebyl zakotven v době kapitalismu 19. století. Demokratická společnost začala vznikat až se vznikem „sociálních států blahobytu“, které na západě vznikly jako protiváha komunismu v druhé polovině 20. století.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:59

pavel v napsal(a):

Mám určité zkušenosti s nezaměstnaností z firmy, kde pracuji. Světová hospodářská recese z r. 2009 nám přinesla prudké omezení zakázek. Firma reagovala radikálním omezením výroby a propuštěním asi třetiny zaměstnanců. Na odstupném vyplatila desítky milionů Kč. Netrvalo dlouho a poptávka zákazníků se obnovila. Firma začala znovu nabírat zaměstnance, ale ve velmi omezené míře. Raději nutila zaměstnance, aby pracovali přesčas i přesto, že jim musela platit značné přesčasové příplatky. Důvod takového počínání je asi každému zřejmý: kdyby firma vzala všechny zaměstnance zpět na dobu neurčitou, riskovala by při dalším poklesu opětovné placení odstupného.

Není snad nutné zdůrazňovat, že popsaný neblahý stav je dílem levicových politiků. Nezaměstnanost bude vyřešena, až dělníci pochopí, že levicoví politici jim svým amatérismem škodí, a přestanou je volit.
09. 11. 2013 | 19:59

Targus napsal(a):

Mirabelka, prý ingot, neví, že se píše revizní Zpráva.
Fachidiot, jako když vyšije.
A vůbec nejlepší jsou ty kecy o dvaceti a více tácech nezdaněných náhrad. Další oblíbené fachidiotovo téma. Nějaká vyhláška osekaná Kalouskem ho vůbec nezajímá.

To: fafnir

prosil bych neodbíhat od tématu. To původní bylo, že Obama nasekal dluhy v bilionech a před ním nikdo ani ťuk. Na vaši odbočku odpověděl Občan, takže plusové body mi už vyfoukl.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:00

smutný napsal(a):

Současnost:

Po pádu Sovětského svazu ztratil kapitalismus možnost sebereflexe. Z úst evropských a amerických politiků najednou vycházejí tvrzení, že „sociální státy blahobytu“ již nejsou finančně udržitelné. A tak zavádějí rovné daně a přímou spoluúčast občanů na dotování systému zdravotnictví a školství, aby popohnali motor kapitalismu. Při tom ukazují jako na černou ovci na Německo, stagnující od začátku 90. let. „Jestli nechcete dopadnout jako Němci, musíte přehodnotit svůj postoj k drahým sociálním státům blahobytu“: říkají pravicoví evropští politici. Jenže reálné příjmy 10 % nejbohatších Němců rostly od začátku devadesátých let o 7 %. Poklesly jen obyčejným Němcům. Enormní hromadění kapitálu jednotlivci už není jen problémem jednotlivých národů, ale celého světa. „75 % světové energie spotřebovává 7 % světové populace a 300 nejbohatších lidí světa má více majetku než 65 nejchudších zemí světa“ [3]. Jak je možné, že již není udržitelný koncept sociálního státu blahobytu, když „hospodářský růst se tento rok (2006) zrychluje na 2,7 % v Evropské unii a 2,5 % v eurozóně“ [4]? Problém tak zřejmě netkví v nedostatku objemu financí, ale v prioritách společnosti a státu. Prioritou společnosti již není udržení solidárního systému, ale pohánění kapitalistického draka k vyššímu výkonu. Jenže za jakým účelem? Všechny základní potřeby člověka žijícího v západní konzumní kultuře jsou již uspokojeny. Ovšem vynalézavost reklamního průmyslu vytvářejícího umělé hodnoty nezná mezí. Tak dnes můžeme být navždy mladí díky kosmetickým prostředkům všeho druhu a navždy sexuálně výkonní díky přípravkům na potenci. Můžeme být hrdiny díky silnému samoúčelnému sportovnímu vozu se stovkami koní pod kapotou. Jak píše Jiří Pehe na svých webových stránkách: „mladí chtějí být starší, zatímco starší chtějí být věčně mladí. Moderní kapitalistická kultura rozložila tradiční životní cyklus: zkrátila dětství, zatímco dospělost přetvořila do postpubertálního životního stylu, v němž se dospělí s pomocí bezuzdné spotřeby snaží zapomenout na to, že jsou dospělí a že jejich skutečné stáří od nich vyžaduje odpovědné postoje. Idea stáří byla kdysi spojena s jistým druhem důstojnosti. Dnešní dospělí stále častěji preferují teenagerské odívání, sex bez reprodukce, práci bez disciplíny, hromadění věcí bez účelu, jistoty bez pochybností, život bez odpovědnosti. Narcismus, který býval spojován s dětstvím, nyní provází dospělé ve stále větší míře až do pozdního věku“ [5]. Kam to všechno povede?
*********************************************************

Dnes už tušíme, nic slavného to nebude.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:04

Targus napsal(a):

To: pavel v

Co tak nahlédnout do zákoníku práce pavlíku véčko? Kdybyste to udělal, nekecal byste takové nesmysly. Píšou tam o přesčasech i o tom, jak lze elegantně a rychle vykopnout zaměstnance. Tedy pokud není podepsána kolektivní smlouva, která zabezpečuje vysoké nadstandardy pro zaměstnance. To ovšem nemá s levicovou politikou nic společného.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:04

Parabellum napsal(a):

Targus

Ne nezajímá Targusi. Vy zřejmě ani neumíte kroutit tím volantem, protože byste jinak věděl, že každej kamionák, každej vlakvedoucí bere normálně diety, a ty jsou NEZDANĚNÝ. Co Kalousek zdanil či nezdanil poslancům se jaksi netýká běžných zaměstnaců. Na 45 Éček denně v Dojčlandu Kamionakovi nikdo nesáhnul.

Takže tak hlupáku a lháři z chacharstánu, kerej dodnes živí dospělý neschopný a líný spratky.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:10

Parabellum napsal(a):

Targus

Hlupáku a lháři Targusi, naučte se rozeznávat mezi jednotným a množným číslem. V žádným zákoníku práce není napsáno, jak se elegantně a levně zbavit několika stovek zaměstnaců naráz. A co se týče toho veskrze pitomého omezení 416 hodin ročně, (u lékařů 800) tak to se třeba velmi elegantně obchází tak, že se zaměstnaci po vyčerpání tohohle limitu každýho třicátýho vynulujou přesčasy, a dá se mu to v mimořádných odměnách. NAPŘÍKLAD.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:15

xx napsal(a):

Parabellum: pochopte, že lidé s úřednickým myšlením si nedovedou představit, že se těmi paragrafy a normami lidé do puntíku neřídí. A když se to náhodou někde dočtou, jsou pak překvapeni a mají pocit že se hroutí celý svět tak jak si ho vysnili.

Lidé neznalí praxe prostě nedovedou pochopit, že může někdo bez zkoušek něco umět, že zaměstnavatel může svým lidem věřit, že na každou věc které se v téhle zemi udělá není trvalý úřední dohled, jestli byly předpisy dodrženy pintlich do každičkého slova.

A když někdo napíše, že svět funguje trochu jinak, chápou to jako útok na samou podstatu světa, protože tak si to představují, tak o tom sní.

Aby lidé jednali a mysleli jako nějaké stroje, tak jak oni nalinkují v předpisech a normách.

Lidé s takovými ambicemi pak reagují podrážděně, když svět neběží podle jejich not. Jsou frustrovaní a rozčílení, nadávají a prskají.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:21

pavel v napsal(a):

Targus

Tedy v naší firmě existují odbory i podepsaná kolektivní smlouva. Vůbec netuším, proč tvrdíte, že kecám nesmysly.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:23

Občan napsal(a):

Pavlev,
jak nebo čím NUTILA firma zaměstnance k přesčasům?
Práci přesčas upravuje NOVÝ Zákoník práce (z r. 2006) takto:
http://business.center.cz/business/pravo/zakony/zakonik-prace/cast4h5.aspx

Pokud je mi známo, tak lidumilní kapitalisté své zaměstnance nikdy k ničemu NENUTÍ. Takže po nás doufám nebudete chtít, abychom uvěřili, že snad firma, pro niž jste pracoval nebo pracujete, zbylým zaměstnacům něčím vyhrožovala nebo je dokonce něčím vydírala. Protože jinak zaměstnance nelze DONUTIT, aby vykonával něco, co nechce.

Těmi "značnými" přípatky myslíte tohle? (opět cituji z NZP z r. 2006)
"§ 114 Mzda nebo náhradní volno za práci přesčas
(1) Za dobu práce přesčas přísluší zaměstnanci mzda, na kterou mu vzniklo za tuto dobu právo (dále jen „dosažená mzda”) a
příplatek nejméně ve výši 25 % průměrného výdělku, pokud se zaměstnavatel se zaměstnancem nedohodli na poskytnutí náhradního volna v rozsahu práce konané přesčas místo příplatku.
(2) Neposkytne-li zaměstnavatel zaměstnanci náhradní volno v době 3 kalendářních měsíců po výkonu práce přesčas nebo v
jinak dohodnuté době, přísluší zaměstnanci k dosažené mzdě příplatek podle odstavce 1.
(3) Dosažená mzda a příplatek ani náhradní volno podle odstavců 1 a 2 nepřísluší, je-li mzda sjednána (§ 113) již s přihlédnutím k případné práci přesčas. Mzdu s přihlédnutím k případné práci přesčas je možné takto sjednat, je-li současně sjednán rozsah práce přesčas, k níž bylo při sjednání mzdy přihlédnuto. Mzdu s přihlédnutím k případné práci přesčas je možné sjednat nejvýše v rozsahu 150 hodin práce přesčas za kalendářní rok a u vedoucích zaměstnanců (§ 11) v mezích celkového rozsahu práce přesčas (§ 93 odst. 4)."

A "desítky milionů na odstupném"? To musela být HODNĚ velká firma, která propouštěla třetinu zaměstnanců. Protože jinak je odstupné dle NZP POUZE ve výši max. tříměsíční mzdy, není-li kolektivní smlouvou stanoveno jinak (v takovém případě odstupné NESMÍ být NIŽŠÍ než určuje zákon).
http://business.center.cz/business/pravo/zakony/zakonik-prace/cast2h4.aspx
09. 11. 2013 | 20:30

Parabellum napsal(a):

smutný

1) Existence sociálnío státu blahobytu je podmíněná tím, že někde jinde existuje kapitální stát, nebo státy, ve kterém se vytvářejí ty hodnoty, které se v sociálním státe spotřebovávají.

2) Ten, kdo tu nechce sociální stát, jste VY, VY, a jenom VY. První pravidlo fungujícího sociálního státu je totiž to, že ten stát je bohatý, a má nainvestováno tam, kde je stát kapitální. Takže třeba švédští důchodci těží z toho, že koncern, který je spravován jejich penzijními fondy v jakési západotatarské gubernii ve středu Evropy x kráýt předražené dálnice, nebo jiný koncernt tomuto pronajal za nehoráznou cenu tucet supersoniků. Rakouští důchodci profitují z toho, že například jejich penzijní fondy vydělávají na hypotékách lumpenproletářů v téže gubernii, kteří jim ještě před 25 lety chtěli zakroutit krkem, a vojensky se na to připravovali.

Jinými slovy, každá záležitost má svůj vlastní čas. Chtěli jste tu 40 let budovat třídní apartheid, ten třídní boj jste prohráli, a nyní přišel vítěz s účtem.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:31

Parabellum napsal(a):

Občan

Nutit ty zaměstnace samozřejmě nemusí. Ono se totiž spíše vyplatí zaplatit přesčasy i s příplatky, než dávat horentní odstupné, popřípadě si držet zaměstnace, které nepotřebujete.

Jistě, těch 25 procent není až zase tak špatné, pokud se nenajdou hovádi Vašeho ražení, kteří se dožadují toho toho, aby se jim to progresivně zdanilo.

Já jsem x let takhle fungoval, a zaměstnavatel mi platil 25 procent ze základu - až poslední roky to nebylo ze základu ale z průměru. A dělal jsem to dobrovolně, a byl jsem vděčnej za to, že si můžu vydělat, a nemusím shánět vedlejšák. Akorát, že sosanská hovada mi ty přesčasový hodiny danila 32 procenty.

Ale jka říkám, to bylo za hrůzovlády sosanů, když měli s bolševiky 111 ve sněmovně.

Dnes dávám přednost tomu dělat O HODNĚ méně za více peněz. To víte, to e ta bída pracovních agentur bez odborů:-))))
09. 11. 2013 | 20:39

xx napsal(a):

Občan: když vezmeme plat propuštěných průměrně 20000 hrubého, mzdové náklady jsou cca 27000 a zákonné 3 platy odstupné je to 81000 na jednoho člověka. 300 lidí = 24 miliónů korun na odstupném. Jestliže je 300 lidí třetina, pak se jednalo o firmu s 900 zaměstnanci. To není zase tak moc velká firma. Je to dost lidí ale jsou i větší firmy.

Ale já zapomněl, vy nám tu budete zase předvádět ten vás svět chudoby a minimálních mezd.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:41

Parabellum napsal(a):

Občan

Uvědomte si, že z toho odstupného se normálně hradí i SP a ZP. A spousta firem dává přednost tomu, že daj dohodu s tím, že ten dotyčný skončí na hodinu s pěti měsíčníma platama - dost se zamezí škodám, které propuštění zaměstnaci úmyslně způsobí.

Takže když průměrná mzda je v té firmě 24 000 hrubého, tak mzdové náklady jsou cca 33 tisíc na zaměstnace, krát tři máte sto litrů na zaměstnance. Pokud těch propuštěných zaměstnaců byly stovky, pak se jedná o desítky milionů.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:43

Parabellum napsal(a):

xx

Já si dovedu představit i větší rozměr Bosch-Diesel V Jihlavě propouštěl 1600 zaměstnaců v tom režimu, jaký jsem popsal - tedy na hodinu a 5 platů v roce 2009, při průměrné mzdě 25 000 hrubého - mzdové náklady na zaměstnace tedy měsíčně - 33 500 Kč, dohronady na odstupném 167 500/zaměstnace. Krát 1600 je 268 milionů. Siemens dával roční odstupné.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:48

Občan napsal(a):

Višňáku,

zaměstnanců se zbavuje elegantně a bleskurychle například "zrušením pracovního místa pro nadbytečnost", eventuálně "reorganizací". V obou případech, pokud zaměstnavatel není úplný ňouma, jde o právně nenapadnutelný způsob zbavení se zaměstnanců, který má ještě tu výhodu, že zrušeným nebo zreorganizovaným zaměstnancům se S OKAMŽITOU PLATNOSTÍ zabrání v přístupu na pracoviště (protože jejich pracovní místo již neexistuje) a po dobu trvání výpovědní lhůty sedí doma.

Když se nějak brání, je poměrně snadné narafičit na ně v některých případech "okamžité zrušení pracovního poměru". Vhodné zejména tam, kde zaměstnanci mají hmotnou odpovědnost nebo odpovědnost za škodu, eventuálně odpovídají za životy, zdraví či majetek jiných.

CHYTRÝ zaměstnavatel dnes zaměstnává na "dohodu o pracovní činnosti", která je RELATIVNĚ výhodná pro obě strany. Zaměstnanec sice nemá nárok na placenou dovolenou, nemocenskou nebo mateřskou, náhradu mzdy za překážku na straně zaměstnavatele, ale zase si de facto může vzít volno kdy se mu zlíbí a na jak dlouho chce a je za něho odváděno socko a zdravko. A oboustranně platí výpovědní lhůta POUZE 15 dní.

Hoši, hoši, vy v tom pracovním právu nějak dost výrazně bruslíte. Takňák mi to přijde, že si poměrně dost vymýšlíte...
09. 11. 2013 | 20:51

gaia napsal(a):

Parabellum

no tedy snad nechete tvrdit, že když 1 podnik v Jihlavě propustil 3% obyvatel celého města ( že tam žijí důchodci a děti nepochybuji, tudíž skutečné % obyvatel je ještě větší), tak mi netvrďte, že všichni sehnali do půl roku zas nějakou jinou práci.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:54

smutný napsal(a):

Drastické novodobé otroctví, které podporuje britská vláda
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/13/noise-immigration-drowning-out-real-problems
http://www.blisty.cz/art/68460.html
09. 11. 2013 | 20:54

gaia napsal(a):

smutný
však Britové otrokářství znovuzavedli od středověku na něj mají monopol, tak čemu se divíte, otrokářské společnosti před tím existovali jen ve starověku
09. 11. 2013 | 20:59

Parabellum napsal(a):

Občan

Hlupáku co neumí číst - pokud se zruší pracovní místo, pak se dává výpověd z organizačních důvodů, která je dvouměsíční a náleží odstupné. Tedy musel jste platit 5 měsíčních platů za něco, co nepotřebujete. To není ani elegantní ani levné. Pokud si myslíte, že jo, tak nějaké lidi zaměstnejte, a pak je platte 2 měsíce, když pro ně nemáte práci, a dejte jim ještě odstupné.

Mimochodem, to, co jste popsal, je přesně to, o čem jsem psal já, tedy okamžitá výpověd a 5 platů odstupného a sorry, jestli Vy považujete za elegantní a levné to, že okamžitě rozvážete pracovní poměr s člověkem kterými zaplatíte 5 mesíčních platů, a k tomu odvody z tohohle na SP a ZP, tak já tedy vím o účelněji vynaložených penězích.

Vy v pracovním právu plavete ještě více, prtotože kdybyste neplaval, tak byste jako VŠ v praze ročník 60 nějaké lidi ZAMĚSTNÁVAL. Vy nejenomže nikoho nezaměstnáváte, ale ani sám nepracujete, a ani jste NIKDY ani žádnou smysluplnou pracovní činnost nevyvíjel - a to jste z regionu, kde je bezkonkurenčně a s ODSTUPEM nejnižší nezaměstnanost a nejvyšší mzdy.
09. 11. 2013 | 20:59

Parabellum napsal(a):

gaia

Souško pančelko, do Bosche V Jihlavě se jezdí normálně i ze Ždáru nad Sázavou a dost běžně z Havlíčkova Brodu nebo z Humpolce či Velkého Meziříčí či Světlé nad Sázavou. Dokonce vím i o případu, že paní jezdí odněkud z poza Hlinska, což je přes 70 kilometrů. A samozřejmě, že ze všech malinkejch obcí v okruhu 40-50 kilometrů.

To akorát vy státní parazité si myslíte, že každý pracuje v místě, kde bydlí.

A ještě neco paní přežvýkavá: Von ten Bosch vlastně není ani v Jihlavě, ale na Pávově, což je vesnice odhadem tak s 300 obyvateli, a to jsem možná přehnal.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:04

neo napsal(a):

xx:

o to nejde. Jen jsem zas a opět musel upozornit na lži jistého Občana. Ta jeho procenta si cusá z prstu a ze starších lidí a žen dělá hlupáky a uráží je. Pak uráží vysokoškoláky a neustále lže a lže a lže. Přitom si pravděpodobně uvědomuje, že ne všichni jsou jako on. MartinO ho celkem vystih.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:04

T.Paine napsal(a):

Výborně. Oáza v poušti. Konečně někdo, kdo upozorňuje na tento problém.
Řešení? No, tak to už je poušť na všech světových stranách.

1) Osvobodit lidskou práci od zdanění
2) Pomoci lidem a zaměstnavatelům návratem zákoníku práce z oblak zpět na zem.

Obojí je jako červený hadr na rozzuřené a hladové býky.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:07

Parabellum napsal(a):

Občan

A co když jsou ve firmě odbory, které si vyřvaly to, že na dohodu o pracovní činnosti se zaměstnávat nesmí?

Pak zbývají jenom agenturní zaměstnaci - opět výhodné pro obě strany :-))))
09. 11. 2013 | 21:08

gaia napsal(a):

Parrab

ze Žďáru tam jezdí ti, co vyhodili z Botany,když ji rušili z Brodu zas vyhození z Pleasu když ho redukovali atd., takže mne zajímá, kam těch 1 600 lidí půjde, když ve Žďáru Brodě Světlé a Meziříčí nic jiného není.

pochybuji, že když rušili to v Jihlavě, že zas někde něco pro 1 600 lidí vzniklo.

jako u nás, když v 90. letech zbourali textilku, kde dělalo 3 400 lidí a na tom místě postavili 3 supermarkety, kde jich dělá 90.

ale tenkrát se to řešilo předčasnými důchody ale dnes naopak jsou ty důchody ještě oddalovány a oddalovány, takže ti lidé nemají co dělat.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:10

Parabellum napsal(a):

gaia

Víte souško pančelko, v Boschi se vyrábějí vstřikovací čerpadla, takže tam asi nějací ševci s postbolševické Botany nebo švadleny z postbolševického Plesau nebudou. Obzvláště s přihlédnutím k faktu, že ten Bosch na Pávově funguje teprve od roku 2004 - byl postavenej na zelený louce. Ten, kdo tam je ze Ždáru, tam šel SAKRA za lepším třeba ze Ždasu nebo Tokozu.

Zapomněla jste říci, že v té textilce byl do roku 1989 průměrnej plat 100 USD HRUBÉHO měsíčně, a kvalitou ty nemoresní hadry nemohly odstát oproti svěží a levnější čínské konkurenci.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:17

gaia napsal(a):

T.Paine

Osvobodit lidskou práci od zdanění

z čeho byste v té Praze vyžili?

Pomoci lidem a zaměstnavatelům návratem zákoníku práce z oblak zpět na zem

právo na práci by měli mít všichni, ne jen blondýny kolem 25 a chlapi bez rodin do 35
09. 11. 2013 | 21:18

T.Paine napsal(a):

Některé vlaštovky tu byly a zase odletěly. Vlastimil Tlustý s rovný důchodem a rovnou dávkou.

Babiš chce vařit přesnídávku v rendlíčku pro selektované. Malá berlička jako pouze zrušení plateb soc. zabezpečení na první rok pro absolventy a lidi nad 50. Jinak nic.

Supersliby vzdušných zámků, pečených holubů, stát jako zaopatřovací ústav na všechno možné i nemožné. I ti mladí mají rozum, nemají děti nebo jen jedno, dvě. No, bodejť. Jsou rádi, že sami mají do úst. Úspory? Investice z úspor? Zklamání a skepse jako po bájném cinkání klíči.

Bez vize a brzkých změn v těchto dvou výše zmíněných oblastech bude velice pravděpodobně hůř. No, možná ne. Přijdou spasitelé z EU zemí, z Jihu a Jihovýchodu (podle nařízení EU) zahalení přizpůsobivostí, neparazitováním, pracovitostí a nostrifikovaní z češtiny od hlavy až k palci na noze.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:19

opravdu nevíme? v každé pr.. je MÚ napsal(a):

Otázka v titulku měla znít:

Zaměstnanost? Jak dlouho ještě?

Z cca 5 miliónů práceschopných má nějaký zdroj opakovaných příjmů 3,5 milónu.
Zatím.

Nedivím se, že by Andrej Babiš, po všech velkohubých slibech teď radši úřednickou vládu.
Brzy se ukáže (pokud se neukázalo, na zprávy nečučím), že socani vlastně chtějí totéž.
Ono to Slávečkovi pomalu počítá, říkal už Eda Janota.
Ale nakonec mu to dojde.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:20

gaia napsal(a):

Parabellum

no 1 600 lidí mi na 50 000 město přijde dost, aby to nebylo vidět

a v pleasu ani v Botaně nebyli jen ševci, bylo tam také hodně strojů, které určitě museli opravovat a udržovat nějací strojaři

navíc víte jaké je kouzlo pásové výroby?
že se ta práce tak rozkouskuje, že i negramotný otrok z polí z bavlnou, najednou může vyrábět automobil,o jehož existenci neměl doposud ani ponětí.Neb dělá jak robot pořád jen jednu operaci.
vyrobit vstřikovací čerpadlo u pásu mohou dělat negramoti po zaučení.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:22

Parabellum napsal(a):

gaia

Souško pančelko, spíše se ptejme, z čeho byste vyžili vy v Chacharstánu, který sežere mnohem více, než Praha, a Chacharský firmy byly dost dlouho ztrátový, a ještě nasekaly nedobytný dluhy v bankách, protože musely vyplácet mzdy přeplacený nekvalifikovaný lůze, jejíž prtáce byla neprodejná.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:22

neo napsal(a):

gaia:

máte pocit, že bez zákoníku práce byste musel omládnout? Blondýna už jste předpokládám.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:22

born65 napsal(a):

Občane,
docela vás obdivuju, že jste svolný se s individui, jako je kupříkladu MartinO, o problému nezaměstnanosti, o němž nemají ponětí, tady přít. Je to házení hrachu na zeď, stejně to nikdy nepochopí, mají na to své ideologické neoliberální poučky a tím vše hasne.
"Drzost vzdělanců je úměrná jejich nevědomosti. Na všechno čemu nerozumějí, se dívají svrchu." (citát Williama Hazlitta)
09. 11. 2013 | 21:25

gaia napsal(a):

Parabellum

spíš přeplacenejm strojařům, kteří se cítili jak honorace, ale něco prodejného nebyli schopni té lůze vyprojektovat.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:25

Parabellum napsal(a):

gaia

Souškoooo, držte se plotny, které možná rozumíte. Ani v Pleasu ani v Botaně nebyl - troufnu si říci jediný řízený a regulovaný stroj, natož stroje vyrábějící se submikronovou přesností.

Víte souško, von šicí stroj není CNC obráběcí centrum.

A Asi to není dost, když tam nemohli sehnat konstruktéra výrovbních linek, a museli si pronajmout Parabellum z 200 km vzdálených Litoměřic.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:25

gaia napsal(a):

neo

bez zákoníku práce by i vám muselo být pořád 28
09. 11. 2013 | 21:26

gaia napsal(a):

Parabellum

jen jestli jste k tomu propouštění nepřispěl právě vy?

jak se zde projevujete, pak pokud tam potřebovali zrovna takového namyšleného asociála, tak to asi moc slušný oddíl nebude.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:28

neo napsal(a):

gaia:

ne nemuselo. Věk neni podstatnej.

Podstatné jsou schopnosti. Zákoník práce nikomu nenařizuje zaměstnávat starší lidi a u nás jich takových je dost. Rozhodují schopnosti, ne věk, ne pohlaví ani barva vlasů.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:30

Parabellum napsal(a):

gaia

To víte gaio, zadarmo ani kuře nehrabe. Nevím proč bych měl tehdy dělat za méně, než ta nekvalifikovaná lůza. V té době, kdy se ty postbolševické bordely hroutily, jsem dělal spíše ve stavebnictví - projektoval jsem lehké obvodové pláště budov- většinou šlo o CENTRÁLY bank.

Jinak nevěděl jsem, že jste taková nepřítelkyně výrob s vysokou přidanou hodnotou, a taková zastánkyně montoven.

A oni asi ti strojaři moc přeplacení nebudou, na rozdíl do školometů spíše naopak, protože to nikdo nechce dělat, a tak máte z republiky montovnu - kdo chce tam pomozme mu tam. Vy se také strojařiny a průmyslu vůbec ŠTÍTÍTE. Důkazem je to, že do fabrik chodíte akorát na exkurze.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:31

Hombé napsal(a):

Nezaměstanost se dá vyřešit tím,že státní a polostátní firmy jako např.ČEZ,Lesy ČR,Letiště Praha zaměstnají tisíce lidí na práce které nyní zadávají jiným firmám.Sice by se jim možná snížil zisk,ale peníze by se státu vratily jiným způsobem a mnoha lidem by ubylo existenčních starostí.Snížil by se přetlak na pracovním trhu a firmy by si museli svých zaměstnanců více vážit.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:34

gaia napsal(a):

Parab

já chodím aspoň na exkurse, ale vy jste o fabrice akorát někde četl.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:34

Parabellum napsal(a):

gaia

Soudruško, půopište mi mechanismus, jakým Já jako externista, který tam působil v roce 2012 jsem mohl mít vliv na propouštění v roce 2009. To je logika soušky pančelky.

Pak se divte, že když takové exoty, jako jste Vy nebo Občan stát vykopne z veřejného sektoru, což je krmník, kde sep rokazatelně nemusí odvádět žádná smysluplná práce, jsou smluvními partnery úřadu práce, a svalují to na ostatní.

Za nezaměstnanost absolventů jste spoluodpovědná VY, protože ve školách nejste schopní připravit žáky na prostředí reálného pracovního trhu.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:36

drzá držka napsal(a):

xx:
tvoje omezené myšlení je k zůlíbání. Zrušme všechny předpisy a normy, zbytečné jsou i nějaké zákony a vyhlášky a začněme anarchistit. Každý si bude dělat co chce, vždyť lidí je jako sraček. Vždyť stejně nejsme lidi ale lidské zdroje, stejně jako přírodní zdroje. A to už vlastně do přírody nepatříme, ale jsme pro přírodu přítěží. Vždyť obchod a peníze jsou už důležitější než lidi. Jedovaté dětské hračky, sračky přidávané do jídla, metyl litej do chlastu, a tak bych mohl pokračovat do nekonečna. To je ten tvůj obdivovaný systém.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:38

Parabellum napsal(a):

gaia

Souškoooo, já nyní projektuju linku na roztřískování kmenů bratru za 140 milionů - a co byste řekla? Na potvoru zase v té těžce zkoušené Jihlavě. A zaměstnavatel sídlí ve fabrice.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:38

gaia napsal(a):

Prab

jestli se v prostředí pracovního trhu mají uplatnit více takoví, jak vy, pak to školství fakt nefunguje. Naštěstí.

a že když si vyházeli odborníky a pak k nim nikdo nechtěl, že tam museli vzít vás, je ještě horší vizitka.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:40

Parabellum napsal(a):

Hombé

Hm, zajímavé. Popište mi, jak ČEZ zaměstná nezaměstnanou maminu vod dětí z Ostravy. co seděla za kasou supermarketu někde na stavbě elektrárny v Ledvicích.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:40

gaia napsal(a):

Parab

jestli ta linka bude automatická, tak se může Munich dál divit
09. 11. 2013 | 21:42

drzá držka napsal(a):

Parabellum
přečti si v klidu a bez trávy co píšeš. Takový blábol snad nevyplodí ani méně inteligentní žák páté třídy. Ty si můžeš vyřvávat do světa, co to nejsi za experta a čemu všemu rozumíš, ale z tvých blábolů je zřejmé, že když pán bůh rozdával rozum, byl jsi na konci v řadě a ten před tebou pobral zbytek.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:44

drzá držka napsal(a):

Parrabelum
já zase tvrdím, že ty víš o elektřině jenom to, že je v zásuvce bytu. A ví bůh, jestli ti ji nemusí ukázat, když chceš zapojit nějaký přístroj.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:51

gaia napsal(a):

Parabellum

mne si zákazníci PRONAJÍMAJÍ a velice tvrdě za to platí.

řekla kurtizána, kurva, gejša apd.

befehl z Německa, který zakazuje brát zaměstnace do pracovního poměru,

zajímavé, o tom by měli na ÚP taky vědět,
09. 11. 2013 | 21:51

drzá držka napsal(a):

Tvoje odpověď, přesně potvrzuje to, co píšu, že jsi nedospělý zhulený jedinec, který se urval doma klávesnici a tak si léči komplexy méněcenosti.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:53

xx napsal(a):

Tedy to je vážně sranda, číst ty hloupé představy státních zaměstnanců o tom, jak funguje život mimo státní úřednický inkubátor.

Je to ale velmi smutné, když si člověk uvědomí, že tentýž stát má monopol na vzdělání a připravuje mladé lidi na život. Je s podivem že selhává jen malá část mladých a ne všichni.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:55

gaia napsal(a):

Parabellum

možná je lepší se rozdělit, než se bát vyjít na ulici, že nám hned někdo vythne peněženku z ruky nebo budem muset u popelnic překračovat děcka s nafouklými bříšky a nebo žebrající zoufalce, delší dobu bez práce.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:56

gaia napsal(a):

Parab

máte pravdu, bude hůř
09. 11. 2013 | 22:01

Občan napsal(a):

Gaio,

ono to s tím Boschem v Jihlavě nebude tak žhavé, protože docela zoufale shání i praktikanty z řad studentů:
http://bosch.jobs.cz/pd/663542297?&livesearch=1&brand=g2&exportRCM=28332213&trackingBrand=kariera.bosch.cz&rps=186&ep=

A jinak shání Bosch po celé republice dost VŠ techniků i netechniků:
http://bosch.jobs.cz/
Přesto, že je v ČR nezaměstnanost vysoká, o práci v téhle firmě rvačka zrovna není, když musí takhle inzerovat. Našeho milého "konstruktéra" Višňovského kupodivu nechtějí, ačkoli lidí do konstrukce a vývoje shánějí několik...

Jinak se Vám divím, že ztrácíte čas polemikou s něčím takovým, jako je on.
09. 11. 2013 | 22:15

Občan napsal(a):

Borne65,
zaujal mě titulek a autor, tak jsem nakoukl - a dopadlo to přesně dle očekávání :o))

Jiank už na A.cz skoro nechodím. Jednak tu už vcelku není k čemu diskutovat a žumpa, co tu na diskusích zbyla (ČEST VYJÍMKÁM!!!) převážně nestojí za čtení, a jednak chodím do práce (to je takové to, o čem zdejší "pravouni" převážně nemají ánunk ;-).
09. 11. 2013 | 22:23

Hombé napsal(a):

to Parabellum:
Ta paní z malím dítětem doma by klidně mohla prodávat v kantýně na stavbě nebo ulízet třeba šatny...dříve to bylo normální.Dnes to tam dělají ukrajinky nebo slovenky na černo.
09. 11. 2013 | 22:23

xx napsal(a):

Občan: a že se tam nepřihlásíte vy se dvěma VŠ ? Aha, technického směru. No to bude asi důvod, proč shánějí lidi zoufale. Protože je tady přehršel sociologů a jiných humanitních vzdělanců ale techniků nedostatek.

Zrovna nedávno přinesli děti ze školky obrázky, namalované na papírech na kterých byly z druhé strany vytištěné studijní bláboly z fakulty humanitních studií UTB ve Zlíně. Nedivím se, že kvalitních lidí je nedostatek, když se mladí věnují studiu takových blbostí jako je multikutlurní výchova. Takoví lidé nový stroj nebo nový produkt které se dá prodat nevytvoří. Ale jenom to vytvoří pracovní místa !!!

A jsme u toho !
09. 11. 2013 | 22:27

gaia napsal(a):

xx

je katastrofa, že na základním školství už není ani na papír

a dnes jsem četla v Právu, že v nějaké vsi u Prahy řekli rodičům, buď budete mít prvňáčka ve třídě se 37 spolužáky, nebo mezi sebou vyberete peníze a my za ně zaplatíme dalšího učitele. Rodiče vybrali jen na úvazek 7 hodin týdně a tak se dělí alespoň čeština a část matematiky.
není to hrozné, že si děti nemohou kreslit na čisté paíry a že jich musí být v 1. třídě 37?
09. 11. 2013 | 22:33

xx napsal(a):

Občan: páni, tak občan chodí po letech do práce ? A copak děláte smím-li se zeptat ? Kde po vás skočili a po vašich zkušenostech ? Na ouřadě nebo v soukromém sektoru ?
09. 11. 2013 | 22:34

gaia napsal(a):

a že se na učitele musí skládat mezoi sebou rodiče? V Klecanech to bylo, už jsem si vzpomněla.
09. 11. 2013 | 22:37

stejskal napsal(a):

Dobrý večer, pane Parabellum,

smazal jsem vše, co jste zde od té sprostoty s vagínou napsal. Zkuste to znovu, ale bez těch sprostých urážek. Máte ještě jeden pokus.

Libor Stejskal
09. 11. 2013 | 22:38

Xury napsal(a):

Pro Občana:
pokud hledají VŠ, který umí alespoň napsat Ohmův zákon, tak se nedivím, že mají problémy.
09. 11. 2013 | 22:44

SuP napsal(a):

xx-
Přečetl jsem to všechno.
Je to marný, je to marný, je to marný.
Jako velmi zajímavé a jak se dnes s oblibou blbě říká - "signifikantní" považuji to, že občané se světonázorem blízkým Bohuslavu Sobotkovi mají tak neskutečnou argumentační nedostatečnost, že budou rádi, když jim naše šedá ekonomika vytvoří zdání ekonomického úspěchu, aniž by si to vůbec dokázali uvědomit. Tady ještě zažijeme srandy.

Parabellum -
Když se přestaneš tak nebetyčně vytahovat, zase se dáš číst (až na ty vaginy, ale to už Ti napsal povolanější).
09. 11. 2013 | 22:49

xx napsal(a):

gaia: Je to katastrofa ve školství gaio, ale co čekáte, vždyť ho řídí státní byrokratická správa ! Jen další důkaz jak špatný je státní správa hospodář.

A kdyby vás snad napadlo, povzdechnout si nad minulým režimem, tak si vzpomínám jak v naší obci velkou část základní školy museli z počátku osmdesátých let rodiče žáků rovnou postavit. Kam se hrabou dnešní potíže s příspěvkem na učitele.

Jak by se dnes tvářili Klecanští a vy, kdybyste si přečetla, že obec jim nabídla, že dětí bude ve třídě méně, pokud si sami svépomocí vybudují rodiče další budovu. To by bylo teprve nářků na krizi ve školství, že ?
09. 11. 2013 | 22:52

Občan napsal(a):

To mi tedy vysvětlete, Dvouiksko, jak je možné, že se PRIVÁTNÍ školy neobejdou bez STÁTNÍCH a KOMUNÁLNÍCH DOTACÍ, ačkoli je neřídí "státní byrokracie" a ještě od žáků vybírají školné
Který "socialista" ty PODNIKATELSKÉ subjekty řídí tak špatně, že nejsou schopny se uživit PODNIKÁNÍM?

To samé platí i o SOUKROMÝCH mateřinkách. Ty, které se nedopachtily k dotacím, skomírají na oubytě.
09. 11. 2013 | 23:27

Parabellum napsal(a):

Občan

Privátní školy jsou samozřejmě mnohem kvalitnější, než veřejné. Kolipa působí na veřejných školách nositelů Nobelových cen? Na škole, kterou absolvoval bratránek vždy nejméně dva, a šlo o školu velikostí srovnatelnou s VŠST v Liberci do roku 1989.

Existují v ČR soukromé školy, tedy takové, které se živí podnikáním? Existují. Takže se uklidněte, a přestante lhát.

A že jsou závislé na veřejných penězích? A proč by neměly být, pokud z toho, že rodiče umístí dítě na soukromou školu, a nevyužívají státních služeb, nemají žádnou danovou úlevu? JAKÝM PRÁVEM tedy potom dle Vás vybírá stát od rodičů daně, pokud by neměl participovat na financování vzdělávání jejich potomků?

Občane, zkuste se smířit s tím, že i děti jsou si rovny, a že tedy z principu MAJÍ NÁROK na proplacení normativu určeného na vzdělávání.
09. 11. 2013 | 23:47

xx napsal(a):

Občan: to je přece úplně jednoduché. Mají státem financovanou konkurenci v podobě státní správou zřizovaných zařízení.

Nemůžete přece čekat, že na státem značně pokřiveném a omezeném trhu, budou panovat ideální tržní podmínky. Mateřinky skomírají na oubytě, protože jim konkuruje státní mateřská škola, kterou si lidé už jednou předplatili v daních. Není tedy divu, že mnoha lidem nezbývá, platit totéž ještě jednou soukromě a že si to mohou dovolit jen ti bohatší.

Navíc, stát velmi silně reguluje podmínky a tím předepisuje i značné náklady, takže ty soukromé školy a školky mají do značné míry netržní podmínky na vstupu. To samozřejmě ovlivňuje i cenu.

Proto nemohou bez státních dotací přežít soukromé školy a školky. Vždyť je to tak jednoduché na pochopení. To by přece člověk se dvěma VŠ měl snadno pochopit.

Pro představu - zkuste si představit soukromé pekařství. Takový podnikatel udělá kalkulaci nákladů, stanoví si ceny a peče. Všechno běží jako na drátkách. Pak se objeví konkurent, spočetl si že se tam ještě vejde a že dokáže konkurovat. Sice se oběma sníží zisk, ale stále to stačí aby žili. Jenomže pak se v té lokalitě objeví další pekárna a prodává 6x levněji, protože zbytek ceny jí dotuje stát. Budete se také divit, jak to, že se ti dva současní neobejdou bez dotací státu a neuspějí na trhu ? Pokud ano, tak vraťte i vysvědčení ze základky.

p.s. velkým písmem se občane v internetových diskusích obvykle křičí. Proč na mne křičíte ? Já na vás nekřičím ;)
09. 11. 2013 | 23:57

Yosif K napsal(a):

Hombé napsal(a):
Nezaměstanost se dá vyřešit tím,že státní a polostátní firmy jako např.ČEZ,Lesy ČR,Letiště Praha zaměstnají tisíce lidí na práce které nyní zadávají jiným firmám.Sice by se jim možná snížil zisk,ale peníze by se státu vratily jiným způsobem a mnoha lidem by ubylo existenčních starostí.Snížil by se přetlak na pracovním trhu a firmy by si museli svých zaměstnanců více vážit.
09. 11. 2013 | 21:34
Tuhle jeden mamlas říkal v TV že nezaměstnanost lze také lehce zlikvidovat stavbou hladoévých zdí jako za Karl IV.
To co říkáte vy je úplně to stejné jako za socíku - za městnat více lidí a na stejnou úpráci a nechat je zvolnit tempo.

Takhle to vypadalo za socíku kterej skočil tím že českej akademik měl nominálně nižší plat než rakouská uklizečka, za každý sociální extrabuřt a za každou blbost se musí nekde něčím platit.
Třeba tím že lidi měli plat 80 USD měsíčně a na hranicích se západem se střílelo ostrými náboji na živé cíle.
10. 11. 2013 | 01:58

Yosif K napsal(a):

Občan napsal(a):
Dvouiksko,

KDE vzal ten Váš fiktivní "elektrikář" kulaté razítko (bez něhož je jakákoli REVIZE elektrorozvodu neplatná)?
Kulaté razítko pochopitelně nedostane bez absolvování příslušných zkoušek. A příslušné zkoušky nemůže absolvovat bez PROKÁZANÉ kvalifikace.

Tolik k Vašemu fiktivnímu "elektrikáři"...
09. 11. 2013 | 18:05
Přesně stejný příklad znám taky.
Kluk se učil eletrikářem ale neudělal učnovské zkoušky. Elektrikáře dělá ale ve skupině a pod dohledem.
Vydělá si 20 tisíc měsíčně. Nikoliv v Praze.

Mzdy v Praze:
Recepční 20 tisíc.
Automechanik 20 tisíc.
Uklizečky 14 tisíc.

Fascinují mne očekávání různých kuglufů (a slečny Gaie) že se stát má starat aby každý měl nějaký job zrovna tam kde bydlí. To nebylo možný ani za socíku kdy se dotovalo všechno horem dolem tak moc až socík nakonec na dotování téměř všeho totálně zkrachovaal.
10. 11. 2013 | 02:21

xx napsal(a):

Yosif K: Hombé si ale jaksi neuvědomil, že lidé pracují i v těch firmách které si ČEZ nebo Lesy ČR najímají, čímž by oni přišli o práci, takže nezaměstnanost by tím nevyřešil. Jen by přesunul mezi nezaměstnané ty dosud zaměstnané.

Ale to je typické pro zastánce přerozdělování, že si neuvědomují ten základní princip, že když někomu stát něco dává, nejprve to musí jinému sebrat a jinak to nikde na světě nikdy nebylo, není a nebude. Stát, tedy vláda nebo byrokracie to jinak udělat neumí, protože sama hodnoty netvoří, pouze bere a dává, tedy mění trh násilím.

Ale vysvětlujte to člověku, který si myslí, že vyřeší nezaměstnanost tím, že sebere práci jedněm a dá ji druhým.
10. 11. 2013 | 02:23

Alice napsal(a):

Yosife, vy jste posledních 24 let nic nepochopil.
ČESKÝ VĚDEC má dodnes vyšší plat než rakouská uklízečka.
A práce- potřebné a užitečné- je z podstaty na světě vždy více než dost. Stačí se dívat na vybydlená gheta, stav silnic. brzy bude zima a nikdo nebude ani čistit chodníky, polovina maminek malých dětí nesehnala školku atd.
Nezaměstnanost je vinou nesmyslných administrativních pravidel a daní, a toho že živíme parazity sociálními dávkami, nic jiného v tom není
10. 11. 2013 | 07:31

Petr T. napsal(a):

Občan napsal(a):
09. 11. 2013 | 13:47
Naprosto přesné...Lépe bych to nesepsal, ale ještě bych přípoměl, že se do počtu musí přičíst předčasné důchodce, dětičky zbohatlíků (které v evidenci nenajdete), a tomu všemu pomáhá speciální " česká " metodika. Takže údaje, kterými se tady chlubila vládnoucí garnitura,jsou v reálu asi tak o 10% vyšší.
10. 11. 2013 | 09:00

mik napsal(a):

Nezamestnanost je diskutabilni problem a nazory na ni mohou byt odlisne a kazdy v sobe muze mit urcitou pravdu takova strelba od pasu ze ten kdo je na socialce nechce pracovat neni pravda stejna je ovsem spatne prijimat praci za kazdou cenu jen pro to abych byl zamestnany ..clovek si musi umet vazit sve hodnoty nechat ze sebe delat stroj je nesmysl v kazdem jedinci je z prirozenosti zakotvena lenost v kazem zavist v kazdem sobectvi v kazdem i vstrictnost laska atd,, kazdy je jiny spolecnost dnes meri mamonem uspesnost existuji rebricky nejbohatsich lidi sveta ,,,potrebuje byt clovek nejbohatsi ? vetsina lidi netouzi byt nejbohatsimi ale taky nechteji sedet na chodniku a spat pod mostem ale jak najit ten stred ? to asi zalezi jak kdo vnima svou hodnotu a jake jsou jeho prirority,,, cim je clovek starsi tim vic uprednostnuje volno a osobni cas pred praci alespon tedy u me to tak je ,,ale znam opacny trend to zalezi na tom jak cloveka prace bavi a jak vnima sve ohodnoceni a to byva v dnesnim svete dost pokroucene jenze ve vyspelych zapadnich zemich si i ten delnik vydela tolik ze muze zit a ne prezivat a socialni system a statistika ? V ceske podobe zbytecnost o nicem nevypovida ,, nejake hlaseni na poste vnucovani nesmyslne prace a dalsi sikana temi co znacnou cast pracovni doby prosedi u kaficka zabavuji se na internetu nebo si lakuji nehty kouri cigarko a klabosi o blbostech vede jen k tomu ze clovek sice nepracuje ale neni evidovany nebo pracuje nacerno,,,v CR treba k procisteni pracovniho trhu by stacila jednoducha vec zavest tydenni mzdu jak je ve vetsine zapadnich zemi zejmena v delnickych profesich a vypoved max 14 dnu oboustrane s tim ze k ochrane zamestnance by stacilo odstupne dle tabulky jak dlouhu u te firmy dotycny pracoval zamestanec by nemel zadne omezeni a do 14 dnu by mohl odejit tim by se prinutily neseriozni firmy k solidnejsim podminkam pro zamestnance ,, a opacne taky pracujes kvalitne mas praci jsi lempl mas smulu a zamestnavatel platis poradne nesikanujes fajn makam pro tebe ,,,chces me obrat delas ze me stoj najdi si jineho blbce,,, bohuzel v dnesnim svete kde si lide nevazi sami sebe uprednostnuji mamon pred svym soukromim a zamjmy to funguje jinak a vzdycky se najde nekdo co bude makat 12 a vice hodin za minimum ,, takovi lide skodi pracovnimu trhu nejvic ,,dalsi nesvar v cele EU a nejspis i ve svete spociva v prodluzovani duchodoveho veku,,,chapu staty ze vzhledem k vyssimu veku doziti je duchodovy system hodne zatezuje ale jednak ten clovek platil cely zivot dane statu nejen ve sve mze ale i zivotem a utracenim za zbozi sluzby zakladni zivotni protreby atd, ale podluzovanim odchodu do penze se nic nevyresi,, nakonec dnes je trend mladych do 30 studovat pak vytvori rodinu berou pak socialni davky a teprve v 35 zacinaji makat,,, jiste ne vsichni mnoho lidi poctive maka od 18 a nakonec pred odchodem do penze nema nic a jeste ma almuznu,,narok na penzi by mel byt diferencovany makas fyzicky od 18 jdes do duchodu driv mas vysokoskolske vzdelani zacal jsi makat v 25 jdes pozdeji,,,a vekova hranice ? jsou profese kde se da pracovat do 70 ale jsou profese kde uz je 55 hranici takze zase diferencovane porad se taky ma clovek moznost rozhodnout sam co bude delat vyse penze je pochopitelne dana jak to v danem state funguje v CR si vetsina poctive pracujicich nemela moznost usetrit jako treba Nemci kdy nemecky penzista nema problem vyjet na ctvrt roku v zime na Kanarske ostrovy pred prazdninama a na podzim si zajede nekam na jih a prazdniny travi v Nemecku cesky penzista si pres leto zajde k rybniku nebo zajede vlakem pobliz domova do prirody a v zime sedi zavreny v panelaku a nema co delat,,,rozumnym urcenim vekove hranice pro odchod do penze a rozumnou vysi penze by se nezamestnanost taky snizila a lide po skole by museli jit makat a ne spolehat na rodice nebo zdimat socialku ,,jiste je to i o tom aby k uziveni rodiny stacil jeden plat a zena se mohla starat a byt doma s detmi,,,
10. 11. 2013 | 09:43

neo napsal(a):

Zvláštní, Občan píše, že pro lidi nad 50 ŽÁDNÁ práce NENÍ (přesně i s tím zvýrazněním), ale sám zase nějakou našel, když ho vyhodili od regálů... popírá sám sebe tenhle chlapík :)
Gaio, já šel do první třídy v roce 89 a bylo nás 34.
10. 11. 2013 | 10:24

gaia napsal(a):

neo

kvůli tomu Pražáci cinkali klíčema, aby to tak nebylo a máme to tu zas a ještě v horším.(není na čtvrtky dětem na kreslení, dřív aspoň dostali ještě vodovky zdarma)
10. 11. 2013 | 11:30

Pacák napsal(a):

"MartinO napsal(a):

Nick "Občan" mě snad nikdy nepřestane fascinovat. Člověk, který se neustále naparuje jak umí skvěle analyzovat, jak umí přijít na kloub všem problémům, jaké má vědomosti a jací jsou všichni ostatní blbci… "

Nebylo by vhodnější, vyjádřit se k příspěvku občana, než ho "lustrovat"? Anebo nejspíš žádné věcné argumenty nemáte.
10. 11. 2013 | 12:12

SuP napsal(a):

Gaia -
Nevím jak Ty, ale já cinkal klíči, aby šli bolševici konečně do hajzlu. Určitě ne proto, aby bylo ve třídě míň dětí.

Pacák -
Prd analyzovat. Umí gůglovat, ale neví pak, co s tím. Tak to zasazuje do svého bolševického rámce, tam na to vždycky kolonku najde.
10. 11. 2013 | 12:46

SuP napsal(a):

gaia -
A ještě - na čtvrtky není, protože na tréningové dětské mazanice opravdu stačí nepokreslená zadní strana jinak použitého papíru. A že se na papíru šetří? Není to proto, že chtějí mít učitelé vyšší platy?
Asi stejně, jako když potřebují doktoři jezdit v autech, reprezentujících třídu horních 200.000 a stavět si tomu odpovídající domy, není pak na léky, nebo na transplantace kyčelních kloubů bezdomovcům. Rozpočty nejsou nafukovací a požadavky všech slimáčků daného oboru musejí v součtu dát jen to, co stát může zaplatit.
10. 11. 2013 | 12:54

fafnir napsal(a):

Občan
fascinuje mě,jak člověk ,který tak dokonale zná pracovní právo,není schopen sehnat práci.Asi umí jen něco,co ostatní nepotřebují,a co potřebují není ochoten se naučit.
Hombé
kdyby státní firmy přijali zaměstnance na to co si najímají od ostatních firem,tak přijdou zase o místo ti,z těch ostatních firem.nesnížíte nezaměstnanost ani o jednoho člověka.
gaia
soudíte ,že by vám na Ostravsku znovu někdo nasypal uhlí do vytěžených dolů? nebo chcete aby někdo,třeba i stát těžil se ztrátou,kterou by musel pokrýt svými výdělky někdo jiný.
BTW,když tak nadáváte na Pražáky,tak proč sem k nám tolik nadávajících leze,za prací,za vzděláním,za obchodem.To mi od těch nadávajících hlava nebere.
A vůbec mě fascinují hraběcí rady od státních zaměstnanců,kteří si myslí,že někdo druhý je povinen se o ně postarat od kolébky do hrobu,aniž by se sami přičinili.máte li pocit,že někdo druhý na vás vydělává,a zneužívá vaši pracovní sílu,není ic jednodužšího,než stejně smýšlejícími vytvořit družstvo,nakoupit stroje,pronajmout provoz, zajistit odbyt,a už můžete zlým kapitalistům ukázat jak se to sociálně dělá.jak prosté,ne?
10. 11. 2013 | 12:57

fafnir napsal(a):

Pacák
k k "občanovi" jsem zpočátku,asi tak před rokem či dvěma,zkoušel přistupovat s logikou.Po jisté době jsem pochopil,že to nelze.Normální člověk,žijící ve středočeském kraji,s užitečnými znalostmi,jednoduše zaměstnání musí sehnat,bez ohledu na věk.Sám jsem poslední zaměstnání nastoupil po 50.Nemá li užitečné znalosti,prostě je musí být schopen je získat i za cenu osobního nepohodlí,a i osobního financování,a ne neustále bědovat,že to nejde,a chtít po ostatních,aby ho sanovali.K takovému člověku je nutno přistupovat ad hominem,neb není ochoten se sám o sebe starat.Starat se máme o skutečně nemohoucí,a i ti jsou většinou snaživější než nick "občan".
10. 11. 2013 | 13:09

fafnir napsal(a):

gaia
když jsemve 53.nastupoval do 1, třídy bylo nás 34.A tento počet ve třídě nás byl po celých9 let,ba i na učňáku a poté na střední škole.
10. 11. 2013 | 13:16

Marian napsal(a):

On tady ještě někdo bere vážně parabellum,martino a neo? Copak nevidíte,že jde o buď o placené hlásné trouby,nebo domýšlivé a naduté hlupáky, směšně se vychloubající svými schopnostmi a úspěchy?
10. 11. 2013 | 13:19

Marian napsal(a):

Vidím, že už je zde skoro celá squadra.:o)))
Svou neochvějnou tupostí, přežvykováním příruček a uváděním smyšlených příkladů nejvíc ze všeho připomínají onen typ komunistů,kterým jsme říkali "kovaní".
10. 11. 2013 | 13:22

uno napsal(a):

marian Vaše "inteligence" je na úrovni, ale jiní jsou přinejmenším stejně inteligentní a nevidím v nich komunisty, to si jako nedouk pletete se sociálním cítěním obyvatelstva, které má své základy již z první Masarykovy republiky. Sprostě nadávat druhým do domýšlivých a nadutých hlupáků dovede kdejaký primitiv z modré oblasti politiky. Když nemáte nic podnětného a jen nadávky, jděte se producírovat jinam, třeba na nádražní lampárnu.
10. 11. 2013 | 14:11

StandaT napsal(a):

Taky bych chtěl být nezaměstnaný, ale nějak to neumím. :(
10. 11. 2013 | 14:18

fafnir napsal(a):

uno
a propos,sociální cítění obyvatelstva.To se bohužel přetavilo v hypertrofovaný sociální stát,který je doveden ad absurdum,kdy není pomáháno těm bezmocným,pro který byl původně vymyšlen.Ti jsou na tom nejhůře.nejvíce z něj profitují různí lidé,kteří nejsou ochotni se o sebe o sebe starat,a převzít zodpovědnost za sebe a svůj život.To je prostě nepřípustné,vychovávat zde třídu parazitů,kteří neustále mají nataženou ruku,státe starej se, a sami neuznávají své povinnosti,a hlavně tu základní,postarat se o sebe a své blízké.
10. 11. 2013 | 14:54

neo napsal(a):

gaia:

pochybuju, že se cinkalo kvůli čtvrtkám a vodovkám. Zkuste zajít do obchodu a koupit je.
10. 11. 2013 | 15:39

neo napsal(a):

Marian alias Sladký:

mýlíš se. Nejsem ani placená hlásná trouba, ani domýšlivý či nadutý hlupák, nepřežvykuji žádné příručky a neuvádím ani smyšlené příklady.
10. 11. 2013 | 15:52

uno napsal(a):

fafnir to sociální cítění je zřetelné a řekl bych, že neustále vzrůstá. Sečtěte si, kolik se ročně vybere na potřebné a bezmocné, ty nadace existují jen díky sociálnímu spolucítění, jen u podnikatelů spíše jde o odpis na daních. Že vlády vynakládají značné prostředky na ty, co společnosti ničím nejen nepřispívají, ale ji škodí, to není sociální cítění, ale strach ze sociálních bouří těch, kteří jsou protěžováni na úkor většiny. Sociální paraziti byli, jsou a budou a záleží na voličích, komu dají hlas, aby se stím něco udělalo. Prozatím absolutní nezájem, asi proto, že volič cítí, že s doktrinami EU se nepohne. Někdo tady na jednom blogu napsal, že ti obyčejní byli za socialismu všichni skoro stejně chudí a v současnosti na tom nejsou lépe a dokonce těžko shánějí práci, vypadá to, že současným politikům je to jedno. Pro mnohé je obtížné sehnat prostředky na studium, ale ani to není zárukou, že seženou práci, asi to bude souviset s kvalitou současných vysokých škol a možným uplatněním jejich absolventů. Za socialismu se na ČVUT učil marxák, dějiny KsČ a bylo to všeobecně kritizováno, v současnosti se na ČVUT místo toho vyučuje náboženství, což je obrovským přínosem, třeba pro stavbaře mostů, budou se umět modlit, aby to jejich dílo nespadlo. Politicky je to snaha rekatolizace společnosti a metody se blíží metodám po Bílé Hoře.
Někteří říkají, že to již nemůže být horší a jiní zase říkají, že může. Tak si vyberte. Lepší to rozhodně nebude, nevěřím na politické večerníčky.
10. 11. 2013 | 16:14

Marian napsal(a):

Uno- snažím se pochopit vaši reakci.Buď jste Ital a doposud dobře nerozumíte smyslu vět, nebo jste četl mé dva úzce související příspěvky VELMI nepozorně.Pokud nejste Ital a četl jste pozorně, jsou úvozovky u slova "inteligence" ve vašem případě pochopitelné a zdůvodnitelné.
Ať tak,jinak či onak, z vaší odpovědi je zřejmé,že jste můj příspěvek vůbec nepochopil.
Pokuste se ještě jednou,dík.
10. 11. 2013 | 16:41

fafnir napsal(a):

uno
činil bych velký rozdíl,mezi sociálním cítěním,a hypertrofovaným sociálním státem,kde si každý nárokuje kde co.při čemž ti skutečně potřební jsou odkázáni na charitu.
10. 11. 2013 | 17:02

pavel v napsal(a):

Mik

Vaše názory korespondují s mými. Stejně jako vy si myslím, že prodlužování věku odchodu do důchodu bere mladým lidem pracovní příležitosti a že by matky měly být doma s dětmi co nedéle. Pokud však rodina žije pouze z jednoho platu, je její životní úroveň podstatně nižší, než rodina bez dětí, kde vydělávají oba. Řešením by bylo podstatné zvýšení přídavků na děti, ale koncipované tak, aby nemohlo být zneužito tak, že rodina bude žít jen z těch přídavků. Celková doba pobírání přídavků by měla být zastropována a měly by být nezávislé na příjmech otce, aby i bohatší lidé byli motivováni pořídit si děti.

Kratší věk odchodu do důchodu a zvýšení přídavků by znamenalo prudký nárůst státních výdajů. Ten by měl být podle mého pokryt snížením důchodů. Důchodcům by tolik nevadilo, kdyby jim klesly příjmy, protože oni už nic nebudují a jejich výdaje jsou daleko nižší, než u mladé rodiny. Znám důchodce, kteří každoročně jezdí na zahraniční dovolenou (jsou to bývalí dělníci). Nevidím důvod, proč by se nemohli spokojit s tuzemskou. Jsou samozřejmě i takoví, kteří mají velice nízký důchod nebo mají enormní náklady na léky. Těm by pak měly finančně pomáhat jejich dospělé děti. Je zcela nezdravé, že v našín společnosti je to často naopak - důchodci finančně podporují své děti, které jsou v plné síle.
10. 11. 2013 | 21:10

pavel v napsal(a):

uno

Stát by měl pomáhat jen takovým lidem, kteří si sami pomoci nemohou (invalidé atd.). Pokud však stát pomáhá i lidem práce schopným, buduje tím parazitismus. Nechtěl bych samozřejmě, aby bezdomovci nebo dlouhodobě nezaměstnaní umírali hlady nebo zimou. Stát by jim však nikdy neměl dát do ruky hotovost, aby si za ni nemohli koupit cigarety, chlast a drogy. Měl by pro ně zřídit vývařovny a ubytovny, kde by museli dodržovat přísný režim (žádné ponocování). Takový nekomfortní život bez floka by je nutil vzít i špatně placené zaměstnání, které jsou ochotní vzít jen cizinci.
10. 11. 2013 | 21:26

evix napsal(a):

To je zase diskuse :-(
Nějak jste milí kapitalisté zapomněli na pracovní agentury...Před krizí byla potřeba pracovní síly, proto aby neodcházeli pracovníci za lepšími podmínkami, měli práci na neurčito jistou.
Dnes po krizi, která nám v žádném případě nehrozila, je agenturní práce velmi žádaná. Zaměstnanci jsou vlastně otroci, kteří musí držet hubu a krok za směšnou mzdu, nesmí mít tohle a tohle, musí tohle a tohle.

Například náš zaměstnavatel by si tohle v Koreji (Jižní) ke svým zaměstnancům nedovolil, jelikož tamní odbory jsou na české poměry dost brutální ( mám obavy, že jednou dojde trpělivost i v ČR a vzpomenou si zaměstnanci na brutalitu taktéž, protiromské pochody jasně ukázaly, že trpělivost dochází).
Nějakým záhadným způsobem si Jihokorejci v tamním Hyundai vydělají více než 2000 € měsíčně a zaměstnavatele to neruinuje, nezaměstnanost je tam velmi nízká, za to se tam může snadno podnikat...
To se mohlo po revoluci i u nás, dnes je to doslova katastrofa. Syn se pokouší uživit se jako OSVČ, ale bez dalšího zaměstnaneckého poměru to nejde. A tím stupidním nápadem ČuŇoBanky to půjde ještě hůře....

Zajímalo by mně, kde se dají provádět revize elektoinstalace bez potřebného vzdělání??? Nejde to ani u plynařů, tedy aspoň tady na Moravě, pokud to v Čechách jde, tak tam máte neskutečný bordel....

Překvapilo mně, že na sprosťárny Parabella konečně pan Stejskal zareagoval, palec na horu.
10. 11. 2013 | 22:29

schlimbach napsal(a):

Podle tohoto blogu usuzuji,m že si pan Babiš vybral skvělého ekonomického poradce -(
Zdá se, že nás čekají skvělé zítřky -(
10. 11. 2013 | 22:49

neo napsal(a):

evix:

nechápu co má společného práce na neurčito s tím, aby pracovníci neodcházeli za lepším. Ano, překáží tam výpovědní lhůta, ale dá se uzavřít i dohoda i když chápu, že někteří zaměstnavatelé využijí raději celou výpovědní lhůtu a zaměstnance dřív nepustí.
11. 11. 2013 | 08:23

patriot napsal(a):

Nezaměstnanost: jak dlouho ještě?

Tak dlouho, dokud zde bude současný systém – nezaměstnanost patří ke kapitalismu jako k velbloudovi hrby.

To ví přece každé malé dítě.
11. 11. 2013 | 16:47

Tý jo! napsal(a):

Občan to popsal přesně, přestože vám to nejde pod fousy. Já jsem týden před operací byl vyhozen z pracovního místa u PC protože jsem kulhal, a teď se mi už přes rok nedaří práci najít, přestož už jsem zdravý. VŠ Pražák, IT obor, ale je mi 55, a občas mi i otevřeně řeknou, že u kindermanagementu nemám šanci. Na sociální dávky nemám nárok, protože spoluvlastním nemovitost. Doufám, že si rozbor Občana ještě jednou pořádně prostudujete, je to přesné. Tak to je, kdž je vám přes 50 a máte třeba drobný zdravotní hendikep - já svoji kvalifikovanou práci mohu bez problému dělat, ale na brigádu s taháním beden nebo 8 hodin pochůzku bohužel nemám. Celý život dělám kvalifikovanou práci u počítače.
12. 11. 2013 | 13:34

uno napsal(a):

pavel - já bych ten parazitismus nesváděl na ty, co přišli o práci a nemohou ji najít, asi o tom nemáte ponětí, co je to být bez práce a marně ji shánět. Já bych ten parazitismus spíše viděl na vrcholku pyramiy, mezi státními úředníky, kteří by měli mít potřebnou kvalifikaci, ale nemají ji a proto mají obavy ze svého rozhodování. Tak nic nedělají kromě toho, že své pracovní povinnosti přesouvají na různé vhodné agentury, které všechno za příslušný často mnohamilionový bychšiš udělají. Když to dopadne blbě, úředník se může odvolat na to, že on nic, on muzikant, zprasili to jiní. Také bych to viděl v rozsáhlé korupci, kam se nějací bezdomovci a jim podobní hrabou na ty miliardy utopené v soukromých podnicích známých našich politiků.
Aspoň vidíte, že existují kategorie parazitů, které mohou a ne že ne! Vždyť pan Drábek to chudákům osekal dostatečně a důchodci se houfně stěhují do svých chat a na venkov, protože na nájemné ve městech nemají, těch jste se nezastal, nejsou paraziti, a to je škoda, taky jednou do té kategorie budete patřit.
12. 11. 2013 | 19:35

Karel napsal(a):

A co by jste řekli tomu že:
- Nadávat na nedostatek pracovních mís je, jako nadávat na to že Vám prší na hlavu. Můžete zůstat u toho ale nezměníte vůbec nic.
- Postavte si dům = vlastní firmu, s vlastní myšlenkou, odvahou, vizí. Tím Vás nezaměstnanost přestane trápit a naopak, zaměstnáte řadu dalších lidí. No a hned potom zjistíte jaký je mentální průměr českého národa ve vztahu ke svému zaměstnavateli.
- Co chci říci. 1. ČR má tragicky málo českým kapitálem vlastněných firem, protože národ nemá ve svých řadách dostatek schopných podnikatelů. 2. Úroveň zaměstnanců je stejně hrozná, hodí se tak maximálně do montoven všeho druhu, nevymyslí či nezorganizují téměř nic. Jen pasivně očekávají dobrý plat, že o ně bude postaráno, že budou mít jistoty všeho druhu...
- Jak se můžeme sami přesvědčit, tohle nějak nefunguje a to ne dlouhodobě.
15. 11. 2013 | 09:41

pepa napsal(a):

Ekonomů,prezidentů,porádců, příživníků, zlodějů máme jako hub v ruských lesích. Bohužel EU je kolos na hlinených nohou, kde vládne bezzubost, příživnictví, kořistnictví a váleční štváči.Ta obluda nemá budoucnost, protože tam vládnou
psychopati, žvanilové, podvodníci a lokajové USA.Tu verchušku nikdo nevolil.Občané EU nemají potuchy, jak z toho báhna se dostanou. Zde je asi 50 milionů nezaměstnaných, bývalé soc. státy jsou totálně na mizině, kde vládne korupce, teror,
bída a na druhé= straně luxus zločinců.
17. 11. 2013 | 19:05

Mc. Boulder napsal(a):

"Občan napsal(a):

Pane Münichu,

i kdybyste se uprůzkumoval, k ničemu se nedoberete.

FAKTA:
Cca 560 000 EVIDOVANÝCH nezaměstnaných.
POUZE cca 110 000 z nich bere podporu.
450 000 nezaměstnaných jsou DLOUHODOBĚ nezaměstaní (tzn. NEberou podporu a NEdostávají ŽÁDNÉ sociální dáky, pokud mají manželku/la nebo jinou osobu v domácnosti s čistým měsíčním "příjmem" nad 6200.- Kč vč. starobního, invalidního nebo pozůstalostního důchodu).
NEevidovaných nezaměstnaných je kolem 300 000.

Volných pracovních míst vč. nesmyslů jako je podomní prodej, "práce z domova", "poradenství" a švarcák všeho druhu je POUHÝCH 39 000.

Pokud započítáte pouze evidované nezaměstnané, pak Vám na JEDNO volné "pracovní místo" vyjde 15 zájemců.
Nejzákladnější logika nám říká, že na 14 zájemců nezbude NIC.
Pokud započítáte i neevidované, pak je na jedno místo 22 uchazečů. Máme zde ovšem regiony, kde je na jedno volné pracovní místo i více než STO uchazečů.
Dnes je situace již tak šílená, že nezaměstnaní vysokoškoláci běžně dělají "sekuriťáky", uklizeče, baliče ve skladech, pomocné mntováky v montovnách a jiné šílenosti.

No, a co se struktury týče:
51% z celkového počtu EVIDOVANÝCH jsou ženy; většina z nich ve věku nad 45 let.
Cca 70% z celkového počtu EVIDOVANÝCH jsou lidé s úplným SŠ vzděláním (vč. SOU s maturitou) a s VŠ vzděláním. Opět převážně ve věku 45+ (logicky - zaměstanavatelé v eráru i privátu se zbavují především zkušených kvalifikovaných zaměstnanců, protože ti mívají vlastní názory a zhusta jsou mnohem inteligentnější a kvalifikovanější než "manageři").
POUHÝCH 30% jsou lidé vyučení nebo zcela bez vzdělání (logicky - snáz hledají práci, protože se neorientují a tudíž přistoupí na cokoli).

Nevím, co chcete zkoumat. Stačí vlézt na stránky ČSÚ a tam najdete strukturální analýzu vč. grafů. "Jenom" je třeba počítat pouze s nominály a zcela ignorovat procenta. Ale i z webu MPSV lzer vyzobat potřebné údaje. Jen to chce trošku PRÁCE (já vím - fujfuj, síra...)
I já jsem SI pro SVÉ analýzy A ZA SVÉ našel potřebné údaje. VY jste ale za takovou práci PLACEN!

Pokud jste za ty roky v NERVu nebyl schopen udělat SI potřebnou analýzu SÁM, pak nechápu, co v tom spolku celou dobu pohledáváta a hlavně - CO jste vlastně vládám celou tu dobu radil?!

Ve svém profilu máte uvedeno, že "Zabývá se výzkumem především v oblasti ekonomie trhu práce a ekonomie vzdělávání s těmito výsledky. Učí v doktorském programu amerického střihu na CERGE-EI.". CO a JAK zkoumáte a vyučujete, když o sobě klidně zveřejníte, že o "pracovním trhu" a všech jeho souvislostech víte úplný kulový???

P.S.:
Definitivně zapomeňte na to, že dlouhodobou nezaměstnaostí jsou v ČR postiženi pouze lidé bez vzdělání a kvalifikace a zdravotně postižení.
Protože OPAK JE PRAVDOU - DLOUHODOBOU nezaměstaností jsou postiženi HLAVNĚ plně kvalifikovaní lidé středního věku a vyššího středního věku.
Ale dám Vám úplně zadarmo radu. Obejděte pár pracovních agentur, nechte se zaregistrovat, půjčte si od někoho montérky a absolvujte pár šichet s nádeníky (lepší sociologický studijní matroš si nemůžete přát) nebo "sekuriťáky". Pokecejte u balicího nebo montážního pultu či na obchůzce o jejich kvalifikaci a předchozí práci - budete překvapen, kolik tam potkáte učitelů, dokonce i VŠ pedagogy, inženýrů, magistrů, bakalářů i pár doktorů. Ani o EKONOMY a TECHNIKY není mezi nádeníky nouze. A budete mít analýzu jedna báseň.
Jenom jim raději neříkejte, co jste zač. Nepřežil byste to - což píši zcela bez nadsázky."
Hezky napsané, takhle povedený a precizní příspěvek je tady vyjímečný.
19. 11. 2013 | 14:28

Golem napsal(a):

Je to stejně legrace, jak se všichni bojí pravdy. Ano, socialismus nebyl ideální, ale dokázal zaměstnat všechny a dát jim smysl života - t.j. vytvářet hodnoty, velké, malé, zanedbatelné ba dokonce pseudohodnoty. Úžasný kapitalismus je jen a jen o penězích a nikoliv o člověku. Ti, co to "vedou" pak, aby neskončili defenestrací, vytvářejí "sociální stát", který je vlastně hluboce asociální, protože být jeho klientem smyslem života nemůže být.
A k našim výsledků, od roku 89? Přiznejme si, že jsme kolonie, sice moderní, můžeme si žvanit co a jak chceme, ale výsledky naší práce odtékají do zahraničí a nám jen roste státní, potažmo osobní dluh. Navíc, správně jsme pochopili globalizaci. Pojmy vlast a národ jsme dokázali totálně vyprázdnit. Proč tedy neemigrovat? Vlastně ano, ale ono dnes není kam.
Jan Neruda nám ani nemůže připomenout "jen dál, národe náš drahý, čas nový nové chce mít činy..." Vždyť my už dokážem jen dělat kočičiny.
21. 11. 2013 | 11:49

Yosif K napsal(a):

uno napsal(a):
Není mě jasné, jak to dělali ti komunisti, že všichni měli práci, kdo nepracoval byl kriminální živel, skoro všichno občané byli skoro stejně chudí. A dnes? Máme přes půl milionů prácechtivých občanů, ale práce není, a při tom většina těch dole je zase stejně chudá, jako byla ta komunistů.
Moudrý muromče, vysvětlete mě, čím to je!
09. 11. 2013 | 18:50
No to jste asi seděl někde na škole nebo na UV když vám tzo nebylo jasné. Já jsem makal ve strojírenských dfirmách, ve stavebních firmách a na noční poště. NIKDE se nepracovalo celou pracovní dobu. Jediná vyjimky byly státem přeplácený polovojenský státní fabriky jako Elitex a JZD Slušovice. Tam měli lidi strach že když budou vyhození tak se sice méně nadřou ale půjdou s platem o 50-80% dolu.
Za socíku se prostě nesmělo propouštět (kromě vojemnsýcjh fabrik a JZD Slušovice - ty byly labinou začínajícíhio kapitalismu..)
Když byla práce na 4 hodiny, tak se dělnasi další 4 hodiny flákali.
Když byla práce na dvě hodiny tak se dělníci flákali 6 hodin denně.
Stavební dělníci z OPBH a komunálů nikdy nikdy nepracovali přes obědovou přestávku a chlubili se tím.

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